New cavalry harness find to be displayed at Ipswich

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

As i have pointed before, practically all the spanish detectorist are plunders.

Obviously, at England is completely diferent, and there are a lot of normative and people working with the archeologists.

I apologize, then, if my comments have ofended anybody.

And, Jordan, i think too that "History is for all". That's the reason because i have begun to do re-enactment.

[History for all]

The history for all statement is a response to the attitude that many in the archaeological world have that to have the opportunity to dig up any artefacts you need to either be a qualified archaeologist or be supervised by one..........why is this??

it is OUR ancestor's possessions that we discover and our history as much as anyone elses.........the number of people I see that are passionate about metal detecting and finding their own history is great..........it opens up a whole world for people who otherwise wouldn't go down that path

To hold and own a simple object that an ancestor once touched maybe thousands of years ago is such a great feeling..........for the privalidged few to want to take that away from people is a real shame

Thank God for the enlightened views and relationship between most archaeologists and detectorists in the UK........frankly the impression I have got from hearing from detectorists abroad is that archaeologists want to basically keep it all for themselves.......in places like Turkey it is illegal to even have an ancient artefact in your possession! even if you found it while digging your potatoes! Such draconian measures are supposed to protect history but all they do is alienate and destroy the very history they are supposed to protect.......people actually destroy objects for fear of prosecution!

HISTORY FOR ALL, NOT THE PRIVALIDGED FEW!

[PhilusEstilius]

I would just like to point out a situation where archaeologists can have such double standards, in the past when I made comment of how wonderfull it was that the earliest female hand writting on a tablet from Vindolanda had been donated to the British Museum. I was then enlightened that NO this writting tablet had not been donated it had been SOLD to the British Museum, for indeed this is a practice that goes on in this world between many Museums. It becomes such a crazy situation where this can be allowed to go on without any question, however all of you out there who have a piece of history in your possesion are no more than a bunch of criminals.

[History for all]

Im sorry, but why?

Why is someone that owns a peice of history a criminal??
Now i'm not talking about nationally or internationally important objects here......I think everyone would agree that these belong in museums......what I mean are everyday small items, such as coins or a roman brooch.......something that a museum just wouldnt be interested in........even if museums bought every single item ever found, you think they can put them all on display? Of course not, they store them, in boxes in a store room........how can anyone appreciate them there??
Far better for these small items to be the prize possession of someone, where it gives him or her enjoyment as he shows them to his or her's family and friends......they in turn gaining an interest in history and keeping it alive

Na, lets lock them up in a box in some museum basement to be forgotten about and finally lost.......crazy

HISTORY FOR ALL, NOT JUST THE PRIVALIDGED FEW!

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

The history for all statement is a response to the attitude that many in the archaeological world have that to have the opportunity to dig up any artefacts you need to either be a qualified archaeologist or be supervised by one..........why is this??

Don't you think that the methods archaelogists use are far more elaborate and careful, than those that the passionate individual has? Archaeologists sometimes even decide not to dig up artefacts, as they know, that with present technology they would destroy, that they want to research.
I think history for all is an wonderful ideal, but one that will fail out of humans general lack of self-discipline or for lack of knowledge, how to deal properly with artefacts.
History for all sounds further similiar to me as the slogan nature for all. There would be no nature left, if we hadn't institutions that protect our environment from us (myself included).
Just look at the tons of artefacts illegaly sold, alone in the web, with their context of finding destroyed. May be you have the responsibility necessary and the knowledge, but many, many others have not or worse see this as their business. I don't doubt honest intentions in many cases, but i'm afraid this isn't enough to have the laws changed.

what I mean are everyday small items, such as coins or a roman brooch

I wouldnt say that it is a problem when an individual possess these things. the problem is the way it came up. may these totally useless coins could have helped to identify or date a site, but were just taken away.
Its somewhat similiar to hords of reckless people who dig up militaria from WWII. the market is full of dog tags and medals from soldiers, whose bones now can never be identiefied.
So I'd say all finds dug up must properly documented, however useless, then you can sell the unimportant things.

[History for all]

I didn't say that these finds are useless in any way.......or that they shouldn't be properly recorded so that the site's history can be documented

What I do mean is that once the finds have be recorded and the relevant information is gained from them, what is the harm in letting the finder keep those small finds? rather than have them stored in a museum where noone of the public can see them?

Don't you think that the methods archaelogists use are far more elaborate and careful, than those that the passionate individual has? Archaeologists sometimes even decide not to dig up artefacts, as they know, that with present technology they would destroy, that they want to research.

At least 99% of detecting finds (in UK anyway) come from the top 30 cm of disturbed plough soil where any archaeological context was destroyed years ago; no amount of technology is going to manage to gain any more information about the context......all that happens is that with each passing year, these items, that are now the only clue as to past activity in the area are being progressively destroyed by machinery and chemical fertilisers.......and that is a fact i'm afraid

The harness I found was in a potato field, everyone involved (inc the archaeologists and farmer) couldn't understand how it had survived, all agreed another turn of the plough would have destroyed every single item.......if left to pure archaeology, this find would never have been made......another fact

[Vlad the Impala]

while it may be that archaeologists do have more skill in excavating and accurately recording finds, this does not mean that the skill is always used. Time and resources impact on the amount of effort put into these activities.

it is not uncommon for sites to be completely destroyed in building developments with little detailed archaeological work carried out.

even where careful excavations are carried out, recording and reporting can take years (if at all) and be of extremely variable quality.

The storage and care of finds in museums once again varies, with items lost, broken or allowed to completely deteriorate

a committed amateur can be a greater servant to 'history' than the professional

besides which as pointed out most detector finds are in plough soil, and some fantastic finds have been recorded and purchased by the museum services

[markusaurelius]

I find this topic is liking hanging out with my friends and talking politics or abortion. It makes people who otherwise are great friends and colleagues who share a common interest and passion do nothing more than fight, and bitterly. Enough to wreck those friendships. Kind of too bad IMO.....

Perhaps we should open a "sticky" thread so those who want to argue and debate the morals and ethics of this topic can do so at whim, while the rest of us who just want to talk Roman Military can do so.

My 2 cents worth.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Well Jordan dont you take things too seriously!

LoL

anyway if you read my posting a little better it says that detectorists who work together with Archaeolists and/or get Archaeologists involved when finding something interesting should NOT be crucified.

The ones who SHOULD be crucified are te looters of excavations, and the people who keep their finds a secret and try to sell their stuff after destroying a possible find location.

so....

do not feel threatened, nor unwanted, since i welcome SENSIBLE detectorists.

PS in stead of Crucifixion, you could also send the bad detectorists to any place in the world still riddled with land-mines, that should sort them out.

M.VIB.M.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

As i have pointed before, practically all the spanish detectorist are plunders.

Obviously, at England is completely diferent, and there are a lot of normative and people working with the archeologists.

I apologize, then, if my comments have ofended anybody.

And, Jordan, i think too that "History is for all". That's the reason because i have begun to do re-enactment.

I agree 100% with your view point Cesar, it is one thing to do this responsibly, another entirely to go out and plunder a dig or find purely for personal profit, and having no regard for the context in which the artifact is found....There was a big oval building in Rome where these kinds of people should be sent.... :evil:

[History for all]

by the way

I do have some pictures but couldnt work out how to put them on.......i hate the internet!

happy reinacting

[caiusbeerquitius]

Every time you post you can attach pics. Just hit the "Add an attachment" box below the window into which you are writing. The click the button to search your computer for the files, and then open the file. Whicle uploading your message, the system will also upload your pics for everyone to see. Like this:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

And who would 'happy reenacting" be? :wink: :lol:

[caiusbeerquitius]

Funny name, innit? :lol:

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

well he should post his real name.

M.VIB.M.