What are the average dimensions of the pilum?

[Latinitas]

Thanks for this picture. I can see and confirm the wrapping at the wooden shaft. But also I can see a ball just at the bottom of the triangular piece. It is indicated with number 2. Is it sure the roman pila had a ball, and did they all have a ball?

BTW the wooden shaft is short (see circle 1)

Oja, has anybody tips how to forge the pilumhead?

Thanks of course

[M. Demetrius]

Oja, has anybody tips how to forge the pilumhead?

http://web.utk.edu/~cohprima/gear.html On this page, there's a tutorial video on how to do just what you're asking. There may be others, but this one came to mind.

Hope that helps.

[Marcus Mummius]

Niels, the ball, possibly a lead weight to increase the impact force of the pilum was never archaeologically attested.

You can read about the lead weight and possible interpretations here:

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ight+pilum

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ight+pilum

Always be carefull when basing your reconstructions on what you see in sculptural art. Better to base them on archaeological finds. You are absolutely sure that thoses objects really existed. In art you could be dealing with artistic conventions. Reality could be altered by the artists.

Vale,

[Latinitas]

David, Robert, Jef and Paul thanks for the help

http://web.utk.edu/~cohprima/gear.html

This site is very informative and beautiful. Thanks for this and for all the help D .

If you know something about the pilum, please, could you notify my?

[Latinitas]

Oja, I have a few questions about the material of the pilum and how to forge the butspike. Could someone tell me how the Romans did forge the butspike, and what the average percentage carbon of the pilumhead was. Thanks

[Matt Lukes]

BTW the wooden shaft is short (see circle 1)

That's actually broken off the sculpture- in the background there's a complete pilum clearly longer with a buttspike.

[Matt Lukes]

Oja, I have a few questions about the material of the pilum and how to forge the butspike. Could someone tell me how the Romans did forge the butspike, and what the average percentage carbon of the pilumhead was. Thanks

If you look at the cross sections in the diagram you posted, you can see the point is solid- that means the piece was made from an iron bar, hammered to a point, and the opposite end hammered flat and wrapped around a mandrel (a form). This leaves a vertical seam that is visible on the majority of artifacts I've seen images/diagrams of. This was also how the sockets of arrowheads and speartips was made. Best to use a cross-peen hammer, using the cross peen to make a channel, then spread out the metal, leaving the point solid. There were others that seem to have been made from sheet iron, simply wrapped around a mandrel- rather easier to make :wink: A single pin secured the buttspike to the pilum (or hasta/lancea) haft.

And the carbon percentage would be fairly low since the pilum shank wouldn't have needed to be hardened or anything- so using modern mild steel should be fine I'd think.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The pin securing the buttspike, does it cross side to side through 2 holes or through a single hole and the seam?

[M. Demetrius]

I don't know about the originals' most common fastening, but on mine, the pin (a small nail) goes through the two edges of the curled metal but does not come out the other side. Seems to hold on so far.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Is that side to side? Sorry, I am a little confused.
The ones I got from armillium come with a forged nail but one hole, I was thinking 2 holes side to side would ensure a solid fitting, if the nail goes all the way through. That is if I can source decent wood for a shaft :lol:

[M. Demetrius]

I don't have the camera here right now, but picture a cone of metal on the end of the shaft, a hole drilled through both pieces of the cone where they overlap a little, and a small nail driven through the shaft until it hits the metal on the opposite side. Drive the nail cross grain to help prevent splitting, and send it perpendicular to the long axis of the shaft.

Does that help?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes ok, that is where the confusion lay. the seams on mine do not over lap, so I was still seeing my version in my head. I guess I will drill 2 opposing holes and to heck with it! Peace of mind anyways!

Looking forward to getting some from Matt! the pictures are exactly what I have in mind!

[M. Demetrius]

You could also just sand down the butt end, and bend the metal around a little more. It would still work just fine, I reckon. It's good to hold the free ends securely, so they don't try to open up and scratch your ankles, etc.

[Matt Lukes]

Originals have just a single hole with a single pin- it does not pass entirely through the haft, nor is there ever any overlap of the edges. That would seem to suggest a relatively tight fit, perhaps even that an adhesive was also used- pitch or something maybe?- and that the pin is certianly no smaller than the hole in the socket/buttspike.

[M. Demetrius]

Thanks for that info, Matt. Now that they've discovered that "super glue" on the helmet, I wonder if they used a similar formula elsewhere. It would only make sense.

What gauge metal would you think good for a buttspike, in mild steel sheet? What gauge did they use in iron? I've had no real trouble with 16, except sometimes when the spike is hit down into hard ground, it tends to open up a little, below where the wood ends.