3rd centrury Roman infantry tactics - Stephenson vs Cowan

[Anonymous]

Muzzaguchi,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the info. I've since discovered that there's a more recent edition by Vieillefond (I think the same one as the 1932 work) that may be more complete, and has a French translation -<br>
<br>
J.-R. Vieillefond, Les "Cestes" de Julius Africanus - étude sur l'ensemble des fragments, avec édition, traduction et commentaires (Publications de l'Institut Français de Florence, Iere serie, Collection d'études d'histoire, de critique et de philologie Nr. 20, Florence & Paris, 1970 )<br>
<br>
Haven't seen it, though. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

goffredo,<br>
<br>
How do you explain Ceasar's use of the pilum as a thrusting spear at Alesia? It seems that it was fairly common to use the longer pila in defensive formations. Nothing Caesar says indicates that the tactic was new or innovative. <p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

The fact that he bothers to mention it surely suggests that it was unusual. If I remember rightly, he mentions it as he is describing a desperate struggle where the Romans are in serious danger of being overwhelmed and I always had the impression that the pila were used as spears out of desperation rather than it being standard practice. If you look at Connolly's recent work on republican pila you might also notice that the pilum of Caesar's time was a much bulkier and unwieldy weapon than the more familiar Oberaden pila, which would not lend itself easily to use as a spear. In my opinion the use of the pilum as a spear at Alesia ranks up there with the use of an entrenching tool as a weapon of war. Undoubtedly it can and has been used this way, but it that is hardly what it is designed to do.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Sorry, what is the reference to Caesar using pila as thrusting-weapons at Alesia? I've just looked through the passage in BG and can't find any such account. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

The fact that they were used at all suggests that the Romans considered them ore effective than gladii in that situation. Even Conolly's heavier pila would be better than a shortsword in most defensive situations. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Duncan,<br>
Look again, it's in the section about the last battle. Caesar had sent his cavalry to attack the Gauls from the rear. Caesar's infantry are described as using their pila as thrusting weapons, upon hearing the cavalry attack the Gallic rear they threw their pila and drew their swords.<br>
Jeff <p></p><i></i>

[Andrew Brozyna]

I seem to recall Caesar's infantry using pila as thrusting weapons at the battle of Pharsalus- directing them at the eyes of the Pompey's inexperienced cavalrymen to freak them out. Again, it seems like an impromptu tactic, not something pila were really meant for.<br>
<br>
-Andy <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Jeff,<br>
BG 7.88.2 has the Romans discarding their pila (omissis pilis - throwing away rather than throwing) and attacking wih their swords, but Caesar doesn't seem to say anywhere that they had previously been using them as thrusting weapons.<br>
<br>
Andrew,<br>
Yes, I know about the thrusting pila at Pharsalus, thanks. Occasional use of the pilum to thrust against cavalry I'm fine with. <p></p><i></i>

[Goffredo]

Yes I agree<br>
the mass of even a slow moving horse (not necessarily in a charge) would make even an unthrusted pila head dangerous!<br>
<br>
"Imagine a mouse, a man, and a horse falling from the height of a second story building. The mouse would be unharmed and run away, the man would BREAK (a leg, bones, skull), the horse would SPLAT." <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

This is what I'm (poorly) atempting to say. The sword seems to have been preferred by the Romans primarily when they were attacking. When caught in a defensive action they preferred to use the pilum in a similar manner to other one-handed thrusting spears. I would think that they might close ranks a little and present an unbroken line of pila points to the oncoming enemy. At Alesia, once Caesar's cavalry had upset the Gauls, the infantry was able to go on the offensive again. It is at this point that they throw their pila and draw their swords. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=danielraymondhoward>Daniel Raymond Howard</A> at: 2/25/04 11:21 pm<br></i>