New discovery shows spear wrapped in a rope

[sitalkes]

Hi, the attached is a tiny horse decoration discovered in 2007 in Bulgaria. It looks like a hoplite but I think it shows a Thracian heavy cavalry trooper. His spear or lance appears to be wrapped in a rope, why is that? :?:

Cheers,

Chris

[Hoplitesmores]

When is this dated?Maybe the rope is part of the riders equipment for the horse?

[Hoplitesmores]

Could he have thrown it close and than pull it back? But it doesn't seem right.....He has something around his hand thats thicker, is it the rope or something else?

[sitalkes]

I think it is 4th Century BC. There's nothing special about the hand when you look even closer. I can't fit the picture on this page as the file is too big but I can email it to you if you like. I've never seen anything like this - was it done for hunting boar , is it like a harpoon or something like that?

Chris

[Hoplitesmores]

please do

[PMBardunias]

I've never seen anything like this - was it done for hunting boar , is it like a harpoon or something like that?

Perhaps this is simplistic, but why not a rope to sling the spear across the man's shoulder or back? How would a cavalryman carry such a spear when not in combat?

[MeinPanzer]

Hi, the attached is a tiny horse decoration discovered in 2007 in Bulgaria. It looks like a hoplite but I think it shows a Thracian heavy cavalry trooper. His spear or lance appears to be wrapped in a rope, why is that? :?:

Cheers,

Chris

Looks to me very classicized in pose, treatment, and equipment. Any details on the costume or equipment that make you think it was a faithful representation of a Thracian, Chris? I can't make out any details of the helmet from that small image, unfortunately.

[Alexander Polemos]

could the rope have been possibly tied to the pommel of saddle?the spear head seems to be fairly easy to remove from a body. but if it got stuck.... horses momentum yank it out?

edit: never mind... the rope yanking tight would probably hurt the rider

[sitalkes]

:oops: Sorry, guys, I just found the official publication of that find, it seems some of the things I had been told previously were wrong. Actually it came from a tomb that included the marvellousy detailed life-size bronze sculpture of the head of Seuthes 111, who fought against Alexander's generals in Thrace... There was also a Chalcidian helmet with Seuthes' name on it, a pair of bronze greaves (moulded to include the face of the Thracian mother goddess on the knees) and the item in question:

"On the floor of the chamber was lying the ruler's sword in a sheath made of iron, wood, and leather, decorated with two solid rectangular gold applications. On their front part, in a splendid framework of plant and geometric ornaments, [the] god Ares is modelled: standing upright, full face, with muscular legs, the weight falls on the left leg; in his right hand he is holding a spear around which a snake is winding; his left hand is on his hip; chain armou, under which a short chiton with short sleeves is showing; on his head there is a [Chalcidian] helmet..; long waving hair. It is logical that an image of the god of war should be placed on a sword; besides, the cult of Ares was popular in ancient Thrace."

Well, yes it's logical and yes it's a typical classical pose but that snake doesn't have markings, a head or tail; looks like a rope to me. I guess I should look up a few more pictures of Ares.

[Paullus Scipio]

One needs to take these initial descriptions with a grain of salt, Chris ! hock:
...and 'Ares' likely means 'local war god'

see also 'Thracian King's Tomb' thread here and was your on-line information source here ? :-

www.kroraina.com/thracia/gk/

[sitalkes]

Well, a web and Perseus search isn't definitive but it's quite interesting the images of Ares I have seen only rarely have this pose except for those in sculpture, and none of them have a snake associated with them. Those in sculpture (and nearly all the others) hold a shield in their left hand. Ares is supposed to be a Thracian god that was adopted by the Greeks, but this is rather different from a Greek Ares. So this is definitely a Thracian Ares, and probably wears 4th century Thracian gear.

[Komanos]

Could we get any other pictures? I agree its hard to see a convincing snake there, but that may yet be the answer. Can we really identify chain armor and a Chalcidian helmet? The Chalcidian helm isn't really surprising at all, if that's what it is, but chain mail would be very surprising, and from what I can see it looks more like a solid cuirass. Also, does he have a sword suspended at his right side? I can't quite tell, but that would not be a very Hellenic detail.

[Paullus Scipio]

...I really don't think a snake would be depicted hanging so lifelessly, or straight in parts - to me , it cannot be anything but a clearly depicted rope....though apart from some kind of harpoon,( a shipboard grappling harpoon device?) or possibly some sort of symbolic meaning, I'm at a loss for explanations...... :?


And definitely not mail....his body armour was apparently leather - perhaps a Tube-and-Yoke corselet.... :wink:

[sitalkes]

The text doesn't say "Chalcidian" helmet, it actually says "like the one we found in the tomb" which is a Chacidian helmet, but I think that it has a definite crest, so it is a Thracian helmet or something like that. There's no way the armour could be mail, but that might just be a translation problem. Another detail of the armour is attached. Hard to say if it is a sword or a wrinkle in the metal.

[artaxerxes]

Hi there,

If he's a cavalryman, perhaps the rope is just part of horse equipment, whip, lasso, whatever.

If it's a depiction (however idealised) of an actual person, rather than a god, perhaps he was a famous rider or horse-breaker?

regards

David Brown