Hunnic lamellar helmet

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

I am speaking about this helmet:

Hunnic helmet

Does anyone here know how it was constructed? Especially how look single lamella?

(Thanks to Fectio for image :wink: )

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

yes, I almost forgot. If someone of you have some other images (pictures/photos) of this helmet, I would be very grateful if you post them. Thanks in advance.

[Robert Vermaat]

yes, I almost forgot. If someone of you have some other images (pictures/photos) of this helmet, I would be very grateful if you post them. Thanks in advance.

Like the image is named on my website, it´s an Avar helmet, not a Hunnic one. :wink:

Here´s the other:
http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/Avar2.jpg

A similar but different helmet:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05946.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05948.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05947.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05960.jpg

Lamellae details:
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05956.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05954.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05966.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05963.jpg

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

Thank you for the pictures Robert, very useful, laudes to you :!:

Yeah, it is Avar, sure. I haven´t a clue because I have read it is hunnic, or alamanic, or even Gepid (hello Osprey!) or even crimean. So I choose the options I like best :lol: sorry.

I am just wondering, can it be used for late roman/barbarian warrior? How it is dated? I have read that it is from early 6th century, but again, Im not sure...

[Carlton Bach]

That helmet is from Grave 12 of the Migration era cemetry at Niederstotzingen. Its provenance is probably East European or Central Asian (Lombard art depicts similar-looking helmets), but the cemetery is Alamannic and located in Southwest Germany. The object itself is today on display (or at least kept, but I bloody well hope they show it) at the Württembergisches Landesmuseum Stuttgart.

The initial publication was in 1967: P.Paulsen: Alamannische Adelsgräber von Niederstotzingen, Veröffentlichungen des staatlichen Amts für Denkmalpflege Stuttgart.

Spüeculation on Italian provenance based on other finds from the grave (lamellar armour, horses with Arabic blood) in: R. Busch: Die Langobarden. Veröffentlichungen des Hamburger Museums for Archäologie und Geschichte Harburg, Neumünster 1988 and in Koch, Ursula: Der Ritt in die Ferme in: Die Alamannen (catalogue) by the Archäologisches Landesmuseum Badsen-Württemberg, 1998, pp. 403-415

Hope that helps

[Ioannes Vandalicus]

perfect info! thank you very much! :!:

[Ironhand]

Very nice. I'm curious if the lacing is original or whether it has been restored. Thanks for the very interesting and informative post.

[Carlton Bach]

Very nice. I'm curious if the lacing is original or whether it has been restored. Thanks for the very interesting and informative post.

There is no way this is original. Leather only survives well in waterlogged or bog environments, and they don't do iron any favours.

[Nectanebo]

...A similar but different helmet:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05946.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05948.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05947.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05960.jpg

Lamellae details:
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05956.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05954.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05966.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd28 ... C05963.jpg

That second helmet looks more like a Medieval Mongol or Tibetan helmet.

[Robert Vermaat]

That second helmet looks more like a Medieval Mongol or Tibetan helmet.

And you're right! It IS a Tibetan helmet. Nice comparisons between the technique of both helmets, yes?

[Nectanebo]

That second helmet looks more like a Medieval Mongol or Tibetan helmet.

And you're right! It IS a Tibetan helmet. Nice comparisons between the technique of both helmets, yes?

Yes it is quite similar in construction.

I suppose it is good example of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach". As far as I know the design of Tibetan armour remained pretty much unchanged from around the 9th century AD up until the early 20th century. Since Tibetan armour was also similar to that used throughout Central and Western Asia, it probably is also related to the armour used by the Avars, Alans, Bulgars etc.

Speaking of which I Wonder if you've seen pictures of this on mercenary Tailor's website:
http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=86

Obviously it's Middle-Eastern and from a much later period, but if it's genuine it appears to be another descendant of the Central Asian lamellar helmet tradition.

[Treveri Gaul]

Hello.

I believe it in that manner that the helmet may be a Hun helmet. The Hun realm dragged on until Tibet totally. Rare it that an easy cavalry carried a steel helmet, in this time was made of leather defender armour was carried .

http://www.turania.hu/catalog/index.php?cPath=31

[Treveri Gaul]

Robert.

That from Hun, from Avar, we talk about Magyar, all the same culture. :lol:







http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunnen

[Robert Vermaat]

I believe it in that manner that the helmet may be a Hun helmet. The Hun realm dragged on until Tibet totally. Rare it that an easy cavalry carried a steel helmet, in this time was made of leather defender armour was carried .

That could be true, but in this case it is a very late Tibetan helmet, 14th or even 17th century I recall. And that makes it improbable as a Hun helmet. Same design though.

That from Hun, from Avar, we talk about Magyar, all the same culture. :lol:

Not quite. In terms of general culture maybe, but not in terms of subculture. Huns were not the same as Avars or Magyars.
And in terms of linguistics - no way!

[Treveri Gaul]

http://www.magyarhirek.hu/print.php?id= ... 3&archive=

"

Hunok, avarok, magyarok…

Vannak elméletek ugyan a hivatalosan el nem fogadott török származásunkról is (a hunokat is általában török nyelvűnek tartják), ám a Hungária elnevezés akkor sem a hun, hanem az onogur népnévből eredeztethető a szakértők szerint. Az onogur szó egy összetétel: az „onâ€