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This was mentioned on an earlier thread, an exhibition in the Glypotheck Museum Munich in which classical sculptures are restored in their original colors reveal through UV light investigation. Now there is an image from this exhition of the famous Augustus Prima Porta revealing painted images on the muscle cuirass, blue and red ptereuges and a red cloak and tunic. I have sent the image to Rich and and asked him to post it here. More evidence for red "military" tunics (those worn under armor), in the early Principate<br>
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I will try to go there this weekend, it would be great if there are any common soldiers in the color-restored sculptures.<br>
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Dan. <p></p><i></i>
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Dan,<br>
I know you're completely centered on the tunic colour but, red and blue pterugae, WOW I WANT to see that!<br>
BTW, I've been always curious about the way the shoulder protectors are attached to the cuirass' back-plate...<br>
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Aitor<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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OMG.....do you know what that means though? It totally re-defines what I previously pictured for pteryges. No more plain, bleached white ones or plain leather...heck...dyed leather, dyed fabric...amazing! Not to mention the red tunic...that would also re-define my impression of imperial officers, I had thought they just wore white...this is amazing!!!<br>
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Richard!!! Hurry the hell up...hahahahah! Post that pic! Post that pic! Post that pic! <p>Magnus/Matt<br>
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"<br>
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I have often wondered about the Prima Porta Augustus. There are one or two features that suggest that it is not a literal image and the newly revealed colour may add to this.<br>
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Firstly, like all images of Augustus it is idealised, and is far from the weedy, spotty individual that Suetonius describes. What we are looking at is a political image not an accurate portrait.<br>
Secondly, he is barefoot, which would seem odd if this was designed to show him as a general, as one would expect him to be wearing the boots being worn by other armoured statues of generals or calcei. This has led to suggestions that he is personified as a god, which would sit well with the fact that he had had his adoptive father deified and would therefore share a portion of this divinity.<br>
Thirdly, he is acompanied by cupid, who is probably standing in for Venus, who Augustus traced his ancestory from.<br>
Fourthly, it has often been suggested that the outstretched hand may once have held a spear, making his pose appear like the conventional image of Mars. The newly revealed red colouring would add weight to the idea that he is shown personified as Mars (the consort of Venus).<br>
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I would suggest therefore (as others have before) that the Prima Porta Augustus does not show Augustus the man as such, or even Augustus as a human being (or soldier), but rather that the Prima Porta Augustus is a political image which personifies Augustus as Mars and celebrates the purported victory in war which had retored the standards lost to the the Parthians (which are shown being returned on the breastplate.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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So based on those thoughts crispus, you would discount the possibility that in fact the artisans who painted the sculpture might have done so in a way to make him easily recognizable <em>as</em> the emperor? If it were me (the emperor), and some artist rendered my uniform in such a manner that did not reflect me, I'd be a tad miffed. While "artistic convention" has always been a valid argument in regards to the accuracy of equipment depicted in all types of roman media...it's the emperor for cry'n out loud! I would think that his godly portrayal in scultpure or frescoes would be mimicked in real life, if only to keep up the pretense of a divine entity.<br>
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I guess there's always at least one skeptic, eh? <p>Magnus/Matt<br>
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As far as I know, during the Principate, Mars was usually depicted with a beard, and the idealised features of Augustus must have been very well known in ancient Rome (there are enough surviving images after all), so I don't think that the audience would have confused the message.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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True, but then we're all aware of Roman culture to be highly influenced by styles and trends. It seems during Augustus's reign, the clean shaven look was in. However, what we do have is periphery evidence of tunic colour which supports what dan was saying, along with this new find. The pteryges really blew me away though.<br>
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Dan, is there any way of knowing the shade or richness of the colours used? Too bad that one guy that knew his stuff about ancient paints wasn't around anymore, with more information he could probably tell us. <p>Magnus/Matt<br>
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I am back from a family business trip..here's the image to which Dan is referring:<br>
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img15.photobucket.com/alb.../prima.jpg<br>
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I wonder about the UV rendition though; the eagle is blue, as are the other metal parts, which I would think would be gold.<br>
<p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
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</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc@romanarmytalk>RichSC</A> at: 3/11/04 3:03 am<br></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
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I never thought of that. If "blue" is suppposed to be "gold/yellow" that sure would make a lot of sense...though I admit the blue and yellow pteryges look snazy.<br>
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Any professionals here give a colour analysis?<br>
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Richard, I took the liberty of posting the picture here, and reducing it in size as well. Sorry for stealing your thunder...heheheh.<br>
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<img src="http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/prima.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <p>Magnus/Matt<br>
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"<br>
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Nice picture Rich!<br>
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So.. Augustus had brown eyes and..is that hair brown or red? If this UV-business will turn gold into blue (does it?), what does it into red? Purple, maybe? A purple tunic and cloack would fit Augustus just as well, right?<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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How about this reconstruction:<br>
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<img src="http://www.waldgirmes.de/roemer/grafik/augustus.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
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Yes Dan, I know the tunic is white....<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
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Hello all<br>
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I am by no means an expert on colour and its interpretation and use throughout time.<br>
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However in a lot of ancient Mediterranean cultures Blue was often used as a paint when depicting bronze, gold or other 'yellow' metals. I have no source on this, I was told it by an art historian at a course I attended.<br>
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So a lot of theblue for the aquila nd helmets on the cuirass might be painted blue but actually be bronze in colour, like Robs repaint shows.<br>
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Hope this helps. <p>Graham Ashford
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I remember in the Satyricon that the characters refer to paintings and statues as being 'so very lifelike they seem to breathe', which since Petronius was connected to the Imperial family probably reflected what everyone saw as the very best sort of representation. Robert's reconstruction certainly fits that bill as far as Augustus skin/hair/face goes, which would also suit the near deified state he occupied as emperor and descendent of Aeneas. <p>Legio XX<br>
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Richard Campbell
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I think it's just as likely that, as Robert suggests, the tunic and cloak are intended to be purple as red - 'purple' in Roman times covering a wide range of hues from near black to violet to crimson - the traditional 'purple' general's cloak being more often rendered as a deep red in reconstructions. This fits with Augustus' Imperatorial status - I don't see why he should be depicted in the tunic of an ordinary soldier, or even a centurion. Not that this mitigates against red tunics being worn, or otherwise, by the military.<br>
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Nice pictures though - Robert, how did you do that 'retouched' version? <p></p><i></i>
Nathan Ross
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Rich<br>
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I by no means mean this to be a counter to your argument, because in one instance gladiator pictures where painted that were also considered lifelike.<br>
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I think though what is considered lifelike by different peoples might mean that we would look at something clearly a model from Rome which they could have been confused by.<br>
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Consider for example the Lost World (?) by Conan Doyle when the filming was shown and people were terrified as dinosaurs had been found, to a modern eye the dinosaurs models are appalling and how anyone could be duped is beyond me ... I remember some footage of a train coming at the camera which had people ducking for cover in an old silent movie as well.<br>
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So appaling colours and dreadful painting might look obviously fake to us but to ancient eyes it might have been terrifyingly close to the real thing ... in their eyes.<br>
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Just my pennies worth. <p>Graham Ashford
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