Greek Bronze Greaves

[Dan Diffendale]

Looks great!

Just as an FYI, it's spelled "greaves."

[Chris B]

Okay. Venting....

You seriously could not pay me ANY amount of money to remake these dang things. I feel like I am going in circles. I am not giving up, but let me add my voice to all the others that say greaves are incredibly hard to get right. I seriously do not see how Manning Imperial gets 16 gauge metal to "snap" on to the calves. I start to get one part of the shape right and then lose it when working on another.

Oh well, I have spent all night working on the right leg and think it would be easiest to flatten it out and start over instead of trying to rework it. Okay, done ranting. Hopefully I will have something positive in a few days!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hmmm, Manning use casts of the owner's legs. How good are you in wood working? Could you sculpt the two sided of the legs in wood and then use it to dish the metal?
Khaire
Giannis

[Matthew Amt]

I'm not sure that would work. Because metal has some spring to it, you generally can't just hammer it over a wooden shape and expect it to follow that shape closely enough. Also, that amount of hammering will smash up the wood, sooner or later!

Probably it's mostly a matter of experience, with a few key tools and some clever tricks. I once heard that a blacksmith would tell new students that the first project they would make was a scrap pile! Too true...

Good luck!

Matthew

[Chris B]

Actually I am fairly decent at wood working, but I also think it wouldn't work very well. The wood isn't hard enough and would definately get torn up by the metal. Thanks for the ideas though. I was aware that manning used casts of the legs, but don't know if they hammer the greeves out on the casts or just use the casts to ensure proper fit.

I am actually considering using extremely coarse sand paper to thin the metal to roughly 20 gauge and try that. I would rather spend time thinning the metal I already have than spend another $100 on a thinner sheet. I might try this after a few more days of playing with what I already have.

The curve isn't quite doing what I want it to do, and I am struggling with that. I also noticed that I really do not think my leg curves as much as some of the greaves in the display. I never really focussed on it, but I think calves might all have a somewhat different curve to them. I started thinking about the stereotypical bow legged cowboy since I live in Texas and wonder if their greaves would curve even more to meet up properly.

I think I need to focus on the fit for now and stop worrying as much about the preconceived notion of how they "should" look. Then I may be able to do some fine tuning.

[Chris B]

I wish I knew how Manning did it! I worked hours today and have to admit it looks a LOT better, but I am still not happy with it by a long shot. My calves are a lot smaller than my thighs and I think that is what is killing some of the curve.

I took pics at various hammering stages tonight and went back and studied them. They were looking just like the pictures and then I lose some of the look in my thighs. They fit really well so far. My knee and instep line up beautifully and if you put a ruler up the center line of the greave, it does curve, but it is not as obvious to the naked eye. It is better than the other pictures above, but still not where I really want it. I did thin the metal by about 20% too.

You can see the greeves starting to take the curve here.





Then I start to lose it because of the shape of my leg. To be blunt and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but my legs are shaped like an African runner if that makes sense. The calves are small and high on the lower leg. They are compact and when I work out they just get tighter, not bigger so I can't dish the greave too much or it won't fit.



Oh well, tell me to shut up if this is too much information, but I am hoping this may help others to get these right. Well, I'll work more tomorrow now.

[Chris B]

The last pic for tonight's work. Oh, and be honest with comments. Being nice doesn't help me get them right. I am hoping that by showing progress we can all figure these out so some more of you can do them yourselves!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yap,I think you're close! I do think the knee area has to be worked narrower or be cut narower,but obviously you've worked more in the lower part.
Laudes for now. I think they're gonna look great in the end.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Giannis,

I thought that, but wasn't sure. Do any of you have a picture of well made greaves actually being worn. I am not sure how much of the circumference of the thigh should be covered. If I am thinking as you, your saying to cut the width of the thigh down some so that there isn't as much right? In other words, it should wrap less around the thigh... or do you mean dish it less?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

No,i mean exactly this. I thought of this from the point you posted the patterns, but wasn't sure,thinking you had already figured the width out from the scrap one. I think it should be cut from the outer side,but don't act quick,wait for some more opinions and photos. Perhaps you could post profile and rear shots?
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Okay. Yeah. That would give the appearance of more curveature too. I actually adjusted my paper pattern that way yesterday, but wanted to try another idea on the left leg first.

I am debating cutting the right leg out of my remaining scrap with the sharper outside angle and using it instead of trying to fix my second attempt at the right leg. I think I can fix this left no matter what from the existing work, but I may try that idea on a third attempt at the right. I can always shave some off this one if it works and flatten the other right scrap from the second attempt if it doesn't and start from there.

[Chris B]

I think I may have just realized something looking at another thread. Let me try to get this out. When you look at greaves on the back edge, the open gap is roughly an inch or two wide.

When the greave is actually placed on the leg, does it spring around the leg and come back to the same gap on the back side of the leg or does it spring against the leg using tension to hold it up so that the gap up the back of the leg is now wider than the greave off of the hoplite? Does that make sense?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually, I think you have it Chris. The proof will be in the wearing tho'.
If it fits you and you can move with it on, it must be right for you!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I think I may have just realized something looking at another thread. Let me try to get this out. When you look at greaves on the back edge, the open gap is roughly an inch or two wide.

When the greave is actually placed on the leg, does it spring around the leg and come back to the same gap on the back side of the leg or does it spring against the leg using tension to hold it up so that the gap up the back of the leg is now wider than the greave off of the hoplite? Does that make sense?

http://www.noricum.de/Beinschienen_G.jpg
http://manningimperial.com/item.php?ite ... =2&c_id=36
The opening is about an inch when not worn. This allows you to wear them easily. Also,most greaves that have been found in a good condition have such big opening. When it fits properly,it doesn't need a lot of pressure by the springiness to be kept in place.
Khaire
Giannis

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Well,reading again your post I think my previous reply was a bit irrelevant. :oops: But I think it should be slightly wider when worn.
Khaire
Giannis