Greek Bronze Greaves

[Chris B]

Okay. Here is Day 1 of the new process:

1) I covered my legs in vasoline.
2) I used 1 (4" wide X 15 yard long) plaster bandages pack, cut into about 6" long strips to coat each leg from the ankle to the lower thigh. That means 1 of these packs for each leg.
3) I let each leg dry for roughly an hour (1 leg at a time).
4) I cut the casts off by slitting it down both sides. Some hair came with them even though I used vasoline.
5) I put the two halves back together and used another pack of plaster bandages to reinforce each leg. (Total of 4 plaster bandage packs so far).
6) I let them dry and used 1 more package for each leg to make absolutely sure the walls are going to be thick enough to cast mortar inside.
7) The next step will be coating the inside with vasoline and pouring mortar into each mold. I will use those casts to shape and test fit the templates, aluminum foil greaves, and ultimately the bronze greaves.





Note: I already notice assumptions about my legs that were wrong. It is nice to see them up close. For instance: I was shocked how much larger my right leg is from my left. I also quickly noticed that the knee just doesn't drop off under the lower edge. The bone curves and rised to it so I will need to dish a "v" under the knee cap as well to get it to fit like a glove. I also now know how the dried cast felt on my leg and will know what "feel" I am working to attain for the metal.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

They look nice Chris. Look forward for the next step. You'll also be able to test the metal every single moment to see how it fits. You'll actually construct the greaves not by the eye and how they look,but how they fit,which actually hopefully make more accurate greaves.
Khaire
Giannis

[Tarbicus]

Hmmm. Looking at the assymetry of your leg casts, why do I get the feeling this might be an accurate reconstruction of the methodology used by the ancient Greeks for making original greaves?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

It must have been something similar. Not only for the asymetry in width but also in length that we see in many ancient pairs(the one in Philip's tomb not included)
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

I actually was really quite shocked to see how vastly different my legs were. I guess hair and the fact that they are low on my body means I have never really paid attention to them that way. The molds are the same thickness so my legs are really that different. I will post pics of the aluminum foil on the casts in a few days so you all can tell me if the shape and coverage for the aluminum foil trials look right to you.

Added: My wife is sitting here laughing at me after I typed this. She was on the floor looking at my legs and added that she was also surprised how different our right and left legs are. Apparently, even the height at which the calf muscles start are different. I guess I will have to make two templates now.

[john m roberts]

Any tailor can tell you about the asymmetry of the human body. That's why clothing bought off the rack never fits perfectly, while tailor-made clothing should. Everybody has one shoulder higher than the other, one arm longer and so on. Ever wonder why you have to keep adjusting your glasses? it's because one ear is higher than the other. With something as unforgiving as armor, it isn't just one-size-fits-all. It isn't even one-size-fits-one.

[Chris B]

Here are update pics:

1) I coated the inside of the plaster bandage molds heavily with vasaline.
2) I mixed and poured mortar into both molds and left them for 48 hours.
3) I cut a slit up the back of the mold and cracked them off the casts.
4) I was left with casts shown in the following two pictures.





I intend to let these dry for another three days to make absolutely sure the inside is nice and hard. Then I will repair the two minor cracks behind the knee. I will begin making perfect templates this weekend. The total cost for these casts was approximately $35.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

He he,it somehow looks so easy now to form the metal around to fit perectly! But once you get the metal and you make the first hit with the hammer... :evil: They will definately help you. Now you can actually measure every inch of your legs,and transport them to the metal.
Another step complete successfully :wink:
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

He he,it somehow looks so easy now to form the metal around to fit perectly! But once you get the metal and you make the first hit with the hammer... :evil: They will definately help you. Now you can actually measure every inch of your legs,and transport them to the metal.
Another step complete successfully :wink:
Khaire
Giannis

Oh...There is NO underestimation on my part. The hammering is what I am completely dreading at this point. Here we go again. At least I have another week and a half before it arrives to contemplate this more.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yeah,I was speaking mainly about what happens with me and before I start doing anything...You have a piece of wood,you look at it and it's so simple to carve exactly what you want...until you actually get it in yoour hand,with a chisel in the other,then things change :lol:
But this is only with me,other people do mirracles for fun.
Go for it!
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

No. I completely understand. It's not just you. I think I have come close to quitting every project I have done. At some point, inevitably, I feel like a 6 year old on the edge of a tantrum where I want to pick it up, scream, and throw it as far as I possibly can while I storm off to my home. You think you have every angle covered and then have a chain of explatives streaming in your mind when the time comes. I am just glad I never did give up. I am really happy with a lot of my projects now that they are done.......I never want to do them again though! :evil:

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Same with me. You know,i think i have the answer why this happens to us...We're just amateurs man! Woodwork,metalwork,painting,sculpting,whatever. I'm not an expert in any of those...and even though many non proffessional do all thse things better and easier,I think they'll all tell us that they've spent much more time and efford in each and every of those things. There are plenty such people in RAT. Fortunately!
Back to the greaves. If you dish the calves first-that little that you say they need to,then the knee and LAST the chin curve,won't this bent the whole greave to cover your leg? Is this how you made the previous ones?
Another idea,to draw the pattern on the metal is to cover your entire leg in some plastic material,then cut it from the back,like a greave and flaten it on the metal.Then transfer what you've drawn on the metal. It's a technique I first saw for making show patterns and it actually worked.
On the other hand,it may not even be necessary.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

I did try to dish the calves first, but I ran into a problem. When I started to hammer the greaves around the leg after dishing the calf, I started to lose the dish, especially with all the other angles working on my leg. I am going to wrap aluminum foil around the cast and flatten it to get a perfect template. Basically, it is what your suggesting using foil instead. I'll post pics when I do it this weekend. I am thinking about trying to slowly put topography on the metal like a topographic map with a sharpie to aid in the various curves in the leg.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Devide it in little squares? Where do you buy the metal from? How much does it cost per kg? And what's the largest piece you can get?
I think it doesn't deserve a new thread right now,so I ask it here. If I want to dish a full bronze aspis cover,and I estimate the thickness at about 0.5 mm or less(I don't know what gauge this is),do I need to start with thicker metal,lets say 0.7-0.8mm? Is there a risk that it will actually crack?
Input from anayone wellcome. Since this would start at least 2 months from now,it's a quick question,I shouldn't hijack this purely "greavy" thread.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

The company I have used is http://www.mcmaster.com . I think that 0.5 mm would convert to 0.0195 inches thick or 25-26 gauge metal. I think that would be pretty thin. I have even managed to crack 16 gauge while dishing. I would think 20 or 22 gauge would be thin enough to work, but thick enough to allow some hammering.

They price the metal by size and gauge. The largest sheets I have seen are 2 foot X 4 foot which is too narrow in width to dish an aspis unless you welded two pieces together. I wanted to do the same, but still haven't found metal wide enough. You might look through the site though. I haven't looked through the Brass or any gauges besides Bronze 16-20 gauge.

Oh, and to answer the first question, I mean draw the elevation changes in the leg. I don't mean drawing a grid. I am going to try and draw the contour of the leg by drawing concentric outlines of the curves. This is the way elevation changes are shown for mountains on maps. The closer the two lines are together, the steeper the grade/incline. The further they are apart, the more gentle the slope. I just want some sort of visual guide to keep me hammering in the right places.