Glueing a Linothorax

[Julius Verax]

Hi , Can anyone tell me if I should glue all the layers first of my Linothorax then wait til dry then bend it to fit when fastening OR shape it on some kind of mould/form whilst glueing ?

Ive been useing MATTHEW AMT'S site for guidence and its very good as you all know but I could do with some more pictures and discriptions so if any one can help please feel free .

Cheers ,

Julius .

[ouragos]

If you are building a glued lino, question 1 is what glue are you to use? If you are looking for a modern glue, my recommendation is to get the best PVA you can - this dries clear, softens when warm and hardens when cold.

Sanford 'Marvin Medium'; is the best I have come across.

You build linos flat, not round a frame - Matthews experiment was grand but it is actually an over-complex approach to what is actually quite a straight forward process. The trick is the pattern. Spend a good deal of time making this and then use it to keep the build tru are you work it (linen moves under pressure when building).

Once complete it will bend as it is supposed to if you get your shape right.

See samples on: http://www.4hoplites.com/Linothorax.htm

[Matthew Amt]

Well, the first big question is, Are you sure you want to glue it? I don't have a solid answer, but at the moment there is a huge debate about whether the darn thing was glued or not! Somewhere on this board is the 30-page discussion... You may already have been through all that, though.

Back when I made mine, there really wasn't much in the way of other folks' experience to draw on. So if people tell you that you can glue it all flat, I'll have to take their word for it! At the time, that just seemed a huge risk to me. (Plus I had this perfect oval wire birdcage...)

It still probably makes sense to do 2 or 3 layers at a time, letting them dry before adding a few more.

And yes, PATTERNS!! Make a cardboard pattern, fit and adjust it 6 or 8 times, use it to draw out another one, fit and adjust THAT one 6 or 8 times, etc.

Good luck!! Khaire,

Matthew

[Paullus Scipio]

....or better yet, and much easier, make a 'spolas' ( identical pattern) of leather, for which there is much more evidence than the elusive and possibly mythical "linothorax" ( see huge discussions elsewhere on RAT )..... :wink: D lol:

....ducks to avoid' incoming'........ :? shock:

[Dan Howard]

We have been over this before. There is little but speculation that the term "spollas" is even referring to armor.

If you want a linen armor it is more likely that it was quilted, not glued.

[ouragos]

Setting the glue/not to glue debate aside and also, if I am not mistaken, the similar debate over the use of leather armour for the greeks... and assuming that you have chosen your timeframe AND you want to make a glued. linen linothorax - flat is right for construct.

I have made some 20 glued units and with the right technique you do not need to glue and let dry to get the linen on. Indeed, it is much better to work 'wet' in making the key body and yolk - as in, just keep layering alternative sides until you get your required thickness. Either from linen alone (in which case you need to get a few layers together and then re-use your pattern (and cut) to bring it back into shape as the material will stretch. Should be pretty stable after that. Alternatively a leather core will help hold rigidity much better... and, in effect, this just substitutes for a number of linen layers.

I strongly recommend you do not use cotton as inner layers to bring the cost down if gluing - different materials react differently with glue - and you can get the layers seperating. Also, if you use leather for the core, DO NOT use a ide with a gloss finish on it. The glue will not bond for long and the first bit of use and you will have to strip it back for repair.

As I said above, choice of glue is critcal - it needs to have elasticity but respond to heat (so that it hardens cold, softens warm)...of, and you will need a tile spreader for application.

Enjoy.

[Julius Verax]

Yes I know its been covered before and Ive read the articles , But Iam making one and its my first time so Iam asking for a little bit of advice , always better to ask before I make a mistake .


Julius .

[Paullus Scipio]

Dan wrote:-

If you want a linen armor it is more likely that it was quilted, not glued.

....I would certainly agree with this !! D

[Julius Verax]

How does the shoulder piece attach to the back of the linothorax ? Sorry for all these questions .


Julius .

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

You can just glue it. It worked for me. You can also sew it for more strenght. You can sew all the layers together,or sew half the layers of the shoulder piece and cover the stitching with the rest half layers. If you stitch all of them,you can cover the stitching with a pattern,similar to the one the lnothorax usually has in the front. So you see,once again there is not one way to do it. I have heard some have only stitched it without any glue.
Khaire
Giannis

[Julius Verax]

Thanks Lads for your help , you all have been great .

Cheers ,

Julius .

[Matthew Amt]

Yes, I stitched the shoulder yoke on, with a line of stitching right along the bottom edge (so it's disguised by the edging), and only along the middle section. The body curves but the shoulder yoke is flat, so the outer edges of the back of the yoke don't touch the body. As I recall, it was a real pain because I tried drilling through all the layers, but then had a problem when I started stitching because the pieces shifted and I couldn't find the holes with the needle! So it would have been smarter to glue them first to hold everything in place, THEN drill and stitch... That shouldn't be so much of a problem if the linen is all just quilted rather than glued, since you don't have to pre-drill the stitch holes.

Khaire,

Matthew

[Julius Verax]

Hi , Can anybody please post any close up's of the fastening attachments for the body and shoulder peices on the linothorax . I just need to see what is used to fasten and how it is fastened .


Julius .

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

On this I wouldn't advice you to look on any re-enactor's armor. No linothorax parts have been found...or,almost. In vergina there were founf golden fittings of a linothorax. Here they are
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1048/755 ... a0cf_b.jpg
If you doubt about them,you can still look on Philip's iron thorax,which closely imitates a linothorax. Another photo of some of the same fittings:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61485475@N ... 8/sizes/o/
I used ordinary pommels,and if you search enough you may find some that look very close to those,with lion heads or disks with rings.
Khaire
Giannis

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

[quote="ouragos") Alternatively a leather core will help hold rigidity much better... and, in effect, this just substitutes for a number of linen layers.[/quote]

What thickness of leather would you suggest for a core or even a (gasp!)complete leather cuirass? What weight does the HA use?