Vergina tomb artifacts may have belonged to Alexander

[Theodosius the Great]

Here's a new article :

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/232681.p ... -the-Great

It makes the claim that the royal artifacts from the tomb were once Alexander's which were later claimed by his surviving half-brother.

Would Alexander, a cavalryman, have worn the armor that was found in the tomb ? It seems more like an infantryman's armor to me but what do I know ?... :roll: :wink:

~Theo

[Paullus Scipio]

See our 'Newsbot' for a slightly better version of the article.....

Theo wrote:-

Would Alexander, a cavalryman, have worn the armor that was found in the tomb ? It seems more like an infantryman's armor to me but what do I know ?...

....Alexander, as King, would certainly have owned more than one panoply. Not only that, but he did not always fight on horseback.He fought on foot on occasion, doubtless wearing an "infantry" panoply and carrying a shield and shorter Dory instead of Xyston, armed as a Hypaspist. He is shown thus on at least one coin, IIRC, and, for example, seems to have been so armed ( shield, corselet etc -Arrian VI.9) when he leapt down from the wall and was wounded in India.

As to whether the panoplies in the tomb are Alexander's, that is an intriguing possibility....compare for example the helmet depicted on various coins, which is almost identical to the one from the tomb, as far as can be determind from a coin.......

[Jona Lendering]

OLD NEWS. The crucial article was written by Olga Palagia (University of Athens), who in "Hephaestion's Pyre and the Royal Hunt of Alexander" (included in Bosworth/Baynham, Alexander the Great in Fact and Fiction [1999]) proved that the decoration of the Vergina tomb postdated the contact with the Near East. I was in Vergina last summer and discussed it with one of the guards, who told me that everybody out there already knew Palagia was right, but that they had not yet changed the museum.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

So what you are saying is that the artifacts are of the correct time for Alexander, as opposed to Phillip?

[Jona Lendering]

So what you are saying is that the artifacts are of the correct time for Alexander, as opposed to Phillip?

The interpretation is by Pelagia, who points out that the motifs in the decoration presuppose intense contacts with the Near East. The obvious example is the lion hunt, a common eastern motif, absent from classical Greece. A friend of mine, who spent a lot of time at the British School in Athens, met Pelagia, and told me that Pelagia's interpretation is common wisdom among Greek archaeologists. The article has been quoted very often during the last decade; I think it is indeed the communis opinio.

The real is issue is no longer whether it is Philip II or Philip III, but why the Greek authorities do not listen more carefully to their own archaeologists. I can imagine a reason: the Macedonian Question. Ever since the former Yugoslavian Republic laid claim to Thessaloniki (1990 or so), Greece has consistently pointed at the fact that Aegae/Vergina, Pella, and all other major Macedonian centers, are within Greece. Admitting one error might encourage Slavonic nationalists.

I suspect that the present repeat article in the National Geographic is somehow connected to the NATO-negotiations in which Greece vetoed the FYROM's membership. Perhaps the FYROM tries to blacken Greece, but there is a more plausible scenario: Greece is preparing its own population for changes in the interpretation of Vergina. The Aegae/Vergina site is at this very moment subject to redesign and restoration. Closing the Philip tomb next year and adapting it to Pelagia's readings, makes a lot of sense.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I was not aware that Jugoslavia had claimed Thessalonika, only the Name, Macedonia. I will make a few enquiries. :?

It would be good to have the interpretaion corrected, but what of the skeleton itself?
Was that not identified with Phillip due to damage to the eye socket?

[PMBardunias]

The obvious example is the lion hunt, a common eastern motif, absent from classical Greece.

Lions were absent from classical Greece, so we wouldn't expect hunt scenes. They were of course present earlier when lions were. In macedon they would still be present. Wasn't Xerxes baggage attacked by lions in thrace or macedonia?

I have no opinion on who's armor it was, just pointing out that the hunt may not be sufficient evidence.

[Jona Lendering]

I was not aware that Jugoslavia had claimed Thessalonika, only the Name, Macedonia. I will make a few enquiries. :?

Not Yugoslavia, but the former Yugoslavian republic of Macedonia. They issued coin notes using the White Tower of Thes/niki as symbol. The Sun of Vergina was briefly used as coat of arms.

On the other hand, you are also right: during the Greek Civil War, and after Thes/nik had been depopulated (the Germans had deported the Jews from this most Jewish of Mediterranean cities), Tito created Macedonia as a special region and chose the name because he hoped he could snatch away the port.

What about the bones?

As I understand it, the anthropological evidence is inconclusive. After all, it was burnt. The greaves indicate that the man who was buried at the main tomb of Vergina, was crippled; which applies to both Philip II and Philip III.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Not Yugoslavia, but the former Yugoslavian republic of Macedonia. They issued coin notes using the White Tower of Thes/niki as symbol. The Sun of Vergina was briefly used as coat of arms.

Yes, I did mean the part which took the name. This is a very contentious issue in Hellas.

On the other hand, you are also right: during the Greek Civil War, and after Thes/nik had been depopulated (the Germans had deported the Jews from this most Jewish of Mediterranean cities), Tito created Macedonia as a special region and chose the name because he hoped he could snatch away the port.

I knew he was meddling in the war in many ways, but did not know that detail.

What about the bones?

As I understand it, the anthropological evidence is inconclusive. After all, it was burnt. The greaves indicate that the man who was buried at the main tomb of Vergina, was crippled; which applies to both Philip II and Philip III.

Always more questions than answers..... :roll: :lol:

[Jona Lendering]

Yes I knew that Arrhideus was mentally criple, but not criple physicly in body :lol:

The Heidelberg Epitome (FrGrH 155 F 1.2) calls him "sluggish and epileptic", rather vague, but -accepting that "epilepsy" was not exactly what we mean with that word- proving that he was unable to control his limbs in a normal fashion. This epilepsy-like illness may be the result of athritis.

Always more questions than answers..... :roll: :lol:

That's the fun of history - there will always be something to be amazed about.

[hoplite14gr]

Correct that Alex would own more than one panoply.
Also there was large scale work in "moving arround", "burrying" and "camouflazing" the Macedonian sacrostand places-graves too.
Pyrros Galatian mercenaries - more efficient grave robbers than soldiers had something to do with this.

Be careful of academics trying to get their 15 minutes of fame by trying to give anew version of history.

I leave F.Y.R.O.M-ians unanswered because I would violate forum rules and I do not want that.

Kind regards

[hoplite14gr]

Plutarch life of Pyrros.

kind regards

[Jona Lendering]

thanks for clarify that.... that brings more puzzles too...
The fact is that the find is macedonian, & we are lucky to see such armor etc. intact in our lives

Hope these people dont keep the same circle for anothe 30 years :x

Yep, that's the amazing thing. I have been standing deeply amazed to see those two shields, so splendid.

[Paullus Scipio]

...as to the bones, here is an article (from 2000) of an examination which concluded the bones were NOT those of Philip II, and the so-called eye socket damage was not as previously interpreted...

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/macedon/

[D B Campbell]

Full report appeared in Science vol. 288 (21 April, 2000) pp. 511-514.

But Eugene Borza had already raised suspicions based on ceramic evidence in Phoenix 41 (1987).