Making a Gladius

[DanM]

I'm getting into working with metal. I'm gonna make greek bronze spear heads, and then a gladius. I have some questions. How do you get the right shaped and sized piece of steel? What type of steel is used? How big of an anvil is neede? How much charcoal do I need? How hot do I need to heat it? I know when I heated a steel can up to about 1700 F, I was able to bend it, so could you guys show me a guide to sword making? And a question for spear heads, How do you attach the head to the spear?

[brennivs - tony drake]

Great stuff good on you I will send you some articlles on forging blades as it will take a while to type out,pattern welding and others to give you a Idea of the various procceses involved. I would start of with a small knife so you can feel the metal under heat and this will give you a idea of how the metal can be drawen and spread, just remember that forging only gives the blade a basic shape.You will need to grind it to finnish, then temper.

This is my anvil,ignore the hacksaw blades. this weighs 110 lbs there is no rule at how big a anvil you need,but a longer face plate will help support the blade and keep it straight.

This is what you should try first small knifes this is how I started
http://www.anvils.co.uk/index.htm
This site will show you the various peices of kit you can obtain to help.
I hope this will be of some help drop me a line for any other help and good luck D
Regards Brennivs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Now that is a very useful site Brennivs!

[brennivs - tony drake]

Yer they sent me a catalogue there is no slaver one but My mouth did water
Regards Brennivs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

First time I have seen any mushroom anvil-thingies....ideal for a helmet project I imagine.........I'd better get a bigger place before I start spending there.

[Matthew Amt]

I'm getting into working with metal. I'm gonna make greek bronze spear heads, and then a gladius.

Wow, terrific! Obviously, bronze casting and iron/steel forging are completely different processes, though both require dangerous amounts of heat. These days I'm more into the bronze stuff, myself!

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/bronze.html
http://s8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Center/index.php

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html

If you can cast reasonably accurate socketed bronze spearheads, I'll make sure you get some business! Just PLEASE be careful, since there are all kinds of ways to get hurt when pouring molten metal!

How do you get the right shaped and sized piece of steel? What type of steel is used? How big of an anvil is neede? ...

It is possible to make the whole blade with cutting and grinding, with no forging or hammering at all. Takes time, and it's messy and loud, but very cheap and doesn't require much special equipment. Grinder, belt sander or sanding disc on a drill, hacksaw, etc. Unfortunately I've never tried a sword myself, so I don't remember the options for steel types offhand. Some Roman originals weren't much different from modern mild steel!

Really haven't done much forging, either, but try these:

http://www.anvilfire.com/
http://www.swordforum.com/

Just so you know, the first advice you'll get from the experts is to start small, with knife blades and such, and work your way up to a sword.

And a question for spear heads, How do you attach the head to the spear?

Greek and Roman spearheads were all socketed, so it's simply a matter of shaving the shaft to fit, and putting a peg or nail through a hole in the socket. Tanged bronze spearheads date back to the Early Bronze Age, before c. 1800 BC (LONG before what most people think of as "Greek"!), and they'd be set into a hole or split in the shaft, then bound with rawhide or sinew:

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/jav1.jpg

By the way, the Greek Classical era (Persian Wars, and all that) is well into the Iron Age. Bronze was still used for most armor, and for buttspikes and lot of domestic items, but swords and spearheads were iron and steel. There were still a few bronze spearheads around, but generally speaking bronze weapons were the whole point of the Bronze Age, Trojan War era and before.

Have fun!!

Matthew

[Magnus]

I'll ditto swordforum.com

The entire forum is dedicated to all things sword...use the search function and you'll get a wealth of info. There's also a section dedicated to forging blades as well.

[DanM]

I found knifekits.com, from sword forum. I guess I could get my materials to start making knives from there.

[DanM]

Once I finish the blade, how do I make the hilt, and what type of bone shoud I use?

[Magnus]

Hey dan, there's also onlinemetalsupply.com. They sell just about any kind of steel you want.

For bone you can use cow bones...pet supply stores carry them for dogs, but make great grips!

[DanM]

What kind of steel is most historically accurate?

[Matthew Amt]

It varied a LOT, from wrought iron with very little carbon, up to a low-grade tool steel. Probably not so much vanadium and molebdynum as today, but some could certainly have been meteoric, with nickel. Noricum was known as a source of excellent steel, prized for surgical instruments, but I'm not sure we're certain just why it was good. Good mix of trace elements in the ore, most likely.

Many Roman blades had "piled" cores, almost like pattern welding, with steel edges forge-welded on. Some seem to be case-hardened, though I've seen one cross-section that is actually harder on the inside than the outside! Could have been a mistake, not necessarily rare, but it could also be the result of the blade having been in a fire?

Good luck!

Matthew

[Magnus]

You'll be good with regular mild steel, or 1020. That can be found easily enough...but you'll probably need 1/4" thickness.

[DanM]

Is this the right steel?

EDIT- i found this place. They have custom sized plates! http://www.discountsteel.com/index.cfm/ ... mID/29.htm

[brennivs - tony drake]

Dan that will do for the job 1018 but it will not be any good if you intend to do combat with it.
Regards Brennivs