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Plumbata
Hans,
I'd love to share those ones too! 8)
Many thanks! Big Grin

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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When I look at these coins, what is the emperor carrying over his shoulder?

[Image: Crispus-RICVII-NIR-eSIS-a-G5-TN.jpg]large image 1

[Image: ConstantineI-RICVII-NIR-gSIS-53v-H6-TN.jpg]large image 2

[Image: ConstantineI-RICVII-192-PARL-TN.jpg]large image 3

and Large image 4

and large image 5
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Ango, spicula, verutum... :?
Not a plumbata, I think....

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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Christodoulou refers to plumbatae on coins in his Gamzigrad article: "[..] Maximianus Herculius and Maximianus Daia are represented on coins each armed with three barbed javelins [..]"

There's an article about plumbtae shown on coins, that I have not read yet:

Boon, G.C. (1991): 'Martiobarbuli coins', in: The Antiquaries Journal 71, pp. 247-50.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Maybe, I haven't seen them.
In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
Hi Robert,

I sent you an e-mail with a scan of the plumbatae in that catalogue. Can you send it to Aitor as well, I suppose you will have his e-mail address.

Cheers,

Hans
Flandria me genuit, tenet nunc Roma
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Hans,
Ooops, I forgot the you haen't got my e-mail address! :oops:
Well, you're right about Robert doing for it (once more) 8)
Thanks,

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
Quote:I sent you an e-mail with a scan of the plumbatae in that catalogue. Can you send it to Aitor as well, I suppose you will have his e-mail address.
Thanks for the quick service, Hans!

Quote:Hans,
Ooops, I forgot the you haen't got my e-mail address! :oops:
Well, you're right about Robert doing for it (once more) 8)

Yup, done.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
Quote:In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Ah, is that so? But our only picture of the plumbata mammilata also shows no weight.. I bet they could be 'artistically removed' here as well...
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
Quote:
aitor iriarte:3p7zyeew Wrote:In any case, AFAIK, No lead weight=No plumbata

Ah, is that so? But our only picture of the plumbata mammilata also shows no weight.. I bet they could be 'artistically removed' here as well...

Doesn't the word 'plumbatae' actually mean 'leaded ones'?
So, technically speaking, no lead = no plumbata :wink:
And a plumbata sans lead weight would obviously never have
the range or hitting power of a dart with the lead weight. One
thing I'd be interested to know, though, is the meaning of the
term 'mammilata'. I'd always thought that was describing the
shape of the lead weight in this variety as being 'breastlike'... :oops:

Ambrosius
"Feel the fire in your bones."
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Quote:Doesn't the word 'plumbatae' actually mean 'leaded ones'?
So, technically speaking, no lead = no plumbata :wink:
And a plumbata sans lead weight would obviously never have
the range or hitting power of a dart with the lead weight.

Hi Ambrosius (btw, I presume that's not your real name - real names have to be added to the signature according to forum rules).
We were talking about artistic representations here. Of course these plumbatae had led weights, but we discussed the possibility that (as the image shown in De Rebus Bellicis) the image on the coin could also have been 'artistically slimmed down'.

Quote:One thing I'd be interested to know, though, is the meaning of the term 'mammilata'. I'd always thought that was describing the shape of the lead weight in this variety as being 'breastlike'... :oops:
Yep, that's what it means - 'breated'.
Roman weaponry is bound to make young boys snigger: the sword is called a gladius and the scabbard a vagina. I can't help it.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Hi Mike,
You see, RAT is moderated a bit more stricktly than Arthurnet.... :wink:
Best send me a PM in future.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Avete Valerius et Faventianvs,

I had a question about adding those strips to hold plumbata on the inside of your shield : how were you able to work around the problem of using rivets so that they aren't visible on the face of the shield ? Did you attach the strip before adding the canvas to the face ?

I ask because I'm thinkg about attaching some strips to my own shield, but I'd like to avoid damaging the face or at least I would like to disguise any visible damage.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Theo
Jaime
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Quote:I had a question about adding those strips to hold plumbata on the inside of your shield : how were you able to work around the problem of using rivets so that they aren't visible on the face of the shield ? Did you attach the strip before adding the canvas to the face ?
Hi Theo,
How thick is your shield? Mine is between 7 and 9 mm, and 4 small nails are perfectly sufficient.

Which brings me to the next topic - do you mean to throw them from the shield?
We've been discussing this lately and the more I read and think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the 'plumbatae inside the shield' were not meant for front troops (lines 1 to 4), but especially for the supporting troops (lines 5 to 8) , who then maintained a constant rate of fire over heads of their comrades in front of them.

If not, throwing plumbatae would mean getting rid of your hasta first. And throwing them directly from the shield has it's own set of problems, even though both are possible.

Therefore I think that even if immediate use of the plumbatae from the shield is possible (like when troops are attacked on the march, in the camp, or while forming up), I think it's most likely that they left them with the supporting lines when the battle started.

What do you think?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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