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Plumbata
#76
Thanks, Robert,<br>
I've stored the pic with the others, is a really good one!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#77
On the use of 'clay' weights and 'oxydization of lead' ... I picked up a Roman loom weight from a local antique shop complete with marks of threads. I thought it was stone, but everyone who picked it up said 'wow that's heavy'. And it is. It must be lead, but it looks like stone. I can see why the lead might be mistaken for clay. <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#78
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
Just read your posts on Slinging.org about the staff-Cestrosphendon. Would you say that might also work with a dart the lenghts and weight of a plumbata?<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#79
Vardulli,<br>
<br>
I noticed your old [url=http://p208.ezboard.com/ftalkinghistoryfrm14.showMessageRange?topicID=162.topic&start=41&stop=51" target="top]Iron Age weapons[/url] discussion on Talking History.com about plumbatae. Do you still have that picture of the Caerwent plumbata from the Newport Museum? I'd be very interested in that one.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 6/5/04 1:02 am<br></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#80
Good evening,<br>
<br>
Comitatus tend to use plumbata of around 45cm length, thrown under-arm that reach 40-60m. They are socketed and heavier than the Wroxeter finds. We were there last weekend for an event and were able to compare. We too have a high percentage of breakages. It takes practice to become accurate with them.<br>
<br>
Hopefully many people will see them in action this August when Comitatus, Britannia and the Troop get together at the Festival of History at Stoneleigh. This will be the major gathering of Late Roman re-enactors envisaged late last year.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
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#81
Mmmmh, interesting John!<br>
We thought that our plumbatae broke so easily because they are tanged, but if socketed ones break easily too, that must be a design feature, probably related to the lead weight...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#82
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Please, pictures! It's for an article that I'm doing, and maybe a few for RAT as well? I also asked Sandra but it seems there aren't many pictures about in your group? I really wish we could join you at Stoneleigh but the possibility is remote this year.<br>
<br>
It's good to hear that most users have the same experiences. (Apart, maybe, from those who use the plumbatae made by len Morgan, which are built to last several throws through a different design).<br>
<br>
I have a strong feeling that plumbatae were meant to break or bend when thrown, like pila, to prevent re-use by the enemy.<br>
<br>
In a recent discussion with Roger White, we tried to establish how on earth the Wroxeter plumbatae managed to get into the most recent layers (Y, Z and II - directly under the topsoil) which are dated to the late 6th and 7th centuries! We both agreed that the Wroxeter plumbatae (8 so far - a real hotspot) are to be dated to the 4th century though.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#83
Valerius/Robert: On the staff sling, I've tried a dart with a staff sling but my test was inconclusive. I was testing out a simpler type of cestrosphendon sling however with a clean release. I need to go back and look at the cestrosphendone again with my old 'solid' leather pouch sling. I will get back to you.<br>
<br>
Instinctively, having used the staff sling alot (I watched Comitatus with interest a month or two ago at Arbeia!) I feel that the two systems could be married together well. If I could make a plumbata I would give you more definitie information!<br>
<br>
Slinging a plumbata is a definate GO, as far as this simpler sling design is concerned. Check out Yurek's last posts on the cestrosphendone thread at slinging.org. I'm sure that sling design would work with a plumbata! <p></p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#84
Aitor, I believe your shorter plumbatae may be very good for this design

Mithras, thanks for sharing that. I'll give this one a go as indeed it sound much, much easier than Hondero's design. Any suggestions for the material? Leather or just a simple string?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#85
That thing looks really dangerous...<br>
Maybe we should try it in a future!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#86
have you read 'testing plumbatae' by john eagle<br>
published in<br>
Roman Military Equipment- the Sources of Evidence<br>
BAR476<br>
<br>
? <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
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#87
Quote:</em></strong><hr>have you read 'testing plumbatae' by john eagle<hr><br>
Yes, I did. I found it familiar - is it in that article? I'll look it up this evening.<br>
<br>
There have been other experiment of plumbatae and slings, but none are described in any detail. Eagle refers to the experiments carried out at the Tower of London with the Wroxeter plumbatae, but these aren't published on paper either. Too bad!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#88
<strong><em>Mithras, thanks for sharing that. I'll give this one a go as indeed it sound much, much easier than Hondero's design. Any suggestions for the material? Leather or just a simple string?</em></strong><br>
<br>
<br>
I would mock up a string sling, test out the plumbata at slow speeds and low ranges just to get the feel of the release, test the cord distances etc. When you feel things are going well and you are getting a nice ballistic arc, I'd move to some hevier duty thong.<br>
<br>
Jealous<br>
<p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
Reply
#89
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jealous<hr><br>
<br>
Why? <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#90
Jealous. Because I've got no plumbata to test! <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
Reply


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