Plumbata

[Davidus77]

Mmm, would be interested to see the article when it comes out Vortigern. I don't have my files to hand, but I can recall a few more barbed heads that I felt might have come from plumbatae, but if you don't have the all important lead weight, then you can't be sure.

The Ph.D is available in the University of Durham library I would guess (completed 1990)

[Robert Vermaat]

Mmm, would be interested to see the article when it comes out Vortigern. I don't have my files to hand, but I can recall a few more barbed heads that I felt might have come from plumbatae, but if you don't have the all important lead weight, then you can't be sure.

That is indeed a problem. Most of the 'weightless' identification, I think, are based on the remainder of the head being smaller than a barbed javelin would be. Or, of course, if they are of the tanged type.

[Salvianus]

This is interesting stuff, chaps: do you have a sense of the sort context in which these are deposited? (As rubbish or losses on the training ground, that sort of thing).

[Robert Vermaat]

Alas Ste, only in a very few cases - mostly due to the majority of finds being very old. Many of the Wroxeter plumbatae were found in disturbed ares.

I can tell you though that one of the the Burgh Castle plumbatae was found in an Anglo-Saxon funerary urn.

You'll have to await the article for an in-depth treatment (although sometimes a PM helps). :wink:

[Chilperic]

Thanks for the list Robert. Nothing more (for me) necessary. Your reply told me everything I needed to know, which was simply a vague pondering about the overall geographical distribution. So they seem to be a western thing, then (usual caveats about distribution maps equalling the distribution of archaeological work aside).

And thanks to everyone else. Most useful. I am glad I joined this list

Guy

[Salvianus]

I can tell you though that one of the the Burgh Castle plumbatae was found in an Anglo-Saxon funerary urn.

Yikes! hock: That boggles the mind!

[Robert Vermaat]

Timothy,

I think you mistake the value of the plumbata. To my mind, its value isn't for piercing shields but rather by being thrown in such a way that it falls down onto the troops from above like a mortar shell. They had weight behind them and a nice sharp tip, good and lethal, I'd say, esp. on unarmored and lightly armored troops.

Are you of an age to remember the "lawn darts" called Jarts? Basically they were plumbata. They were taken off the market because too many people were injured by them. As a child, my wife got one sunk into her shoulder by her little brother hock: . Those "toys" would definitely pierce unarmored skin so I have no doubt about the value of the "real thing" :wink: .

Lucianus

Ah yes the jart. I remember a set or three of the deadly things amongst the garage toys.

Also remember as kids playing a really dumb game where we would throw them straight up in the air as high as we could just to see where they came down amongst us.

hock: I see what you mean...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

A bit like firing weapons in the air......... hock: :?

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

hock: I see what you mean...

Brilliant! :lol:

-lucianus

[thecrocman (anton)]

hehe lol

[Robert Vermaat]

If the weather holds and I manage to find a bucket of clay, I intend to make a new set of plumbatae - Brennius' way.

[brennivs - tony drake]

Vortigern remember to close the clay around the shaft leaving a small area with a little funnel to pour down and if the clay is damp beware spitting
Regards Brennivs

[Robert Vermaat]

Vortigern remember to close the clay around the shaft leaving a small area with a little funnel to pour down and if the clay is damp beware spitting

Thanks for the tips Tony. I did not manage to do that funnel, so there will have to be some chipping at lead..
Spitting there was plenty of, but I managed to avoid most by pooring gently.
Below are my results for a sunny afternoon:

My contraption: a bucket full of clay from the Limes. I managed to 'kidnap' some nice sticky clay from a building site this morning. lol:


I'm using a small aluminium pan to smelt the lead, not very stable though - I should get something larger I guess.

[Robert Vermaat]

It took a bit of experimenting to get the right size of hole for a good result:



Here's the result of the experiment: 3 broken plumbatae re-poored and 4 new ones. next I've file down the lead and shorten the shafts in order to fit the flights.

[Robert Vermaat]

Something that came up along the way. I cut open an old weight for recyling. Then I recalled that there are still people who somehow cannot believe that hot lead does not incinerate the woode shaft, but only sears it. Well, here's the proof: