01-19-2009, 12:15 PM
Answer from Murray Dahm:
Quote:Hi Robert,
A Christmas without AW! Argh (the podcast for the near-east issue was done Christmas week so I was immersed (that is not intended to make you jealous!). No I don't mind if the question is posted at all. Feel free to edit the below if you want to - or I can repost it when you have posed your question.
The major sources I used were the E A Thompson 1952 edition and translation (reissued by Ares in 1996) and the BAR De Rebus Bellicis special from 1979.
These do have the medieval illustrations although it is pointed out that there are discrepancies in them in comparison ot the text (I have also seen photos of the Bodleian copy (or it may be the Munich) which my supervisor took for his book on the Notitia (Peter Brennan, whose work has been long forthcoming and still is I'm afraid!).
The idea that both the plumbata et tribulata and the plumbata mamillata were innovations comes from Thompson (pp. 67-68) and it is his idea (p. 67 n. 3) that 'this must be distinguished from the plumabti gladii with which almost all soldiers were armed in the time of Vegetius', referring to 2.15. This seems to be a reading of Vegetius' text itself which has (2.15.6 in Reeve's 2004 Oxford edition) 'plumbatis gladiis et missibilibus accinti.' In Stelten (1990) this is 'plumbatis, gladis et missibilibus'. In the translations I have this sentence is translated as: 'lead weapons, swords, and missiles (Stelten); 'lead-weighted darts, swords and javelins' (Milner) and 'loaded javelins, swords and common missile weapons' (Clark). But the two words can be seen to go together so that (perhaps understandably) the ferentarii or light troops would not be expected to engage with swords but would be missile troops alone - this makes much more sense (to me at least) and thus plumbati gladii may be an original phrase. Gosh, if that is a new idea I'd better reserve it! Or we could share it if you are so inclined!
Thompson also distinguishes the plumbata mamillata from the mattiobarbulus.
My sentence, which links the plumbaiti gladii to those carried on the inside of the shield (the mattiobarbulus of Vegetius 1.17 and 2.15) after my understanding of Thompson and Vegetius' phrase that 'just as almost all soldiers seem to be armed today', is perhaps misleading and I am sorry. Re-examining Vegetius, however, it seems possible that the light armed troops version of the plumbatae may have been distinguished from the mattiobarbulus by Vegetius (or his source, and Vegetius has misunderstood the distinction and thus said almost all soldiers are armed that way which may refer to the mattiobarbulus and not the light armed version of the plumbata, and may or may not have been carried on the inside of the shields of the ferentarii). No shield is mentioned in the equipment of the ferentarii and so, perhaps, we are dealing with a different weapon altogether. (A cat among the plumbatae pigeons?) What do you think?
I read the descriptions of plumbatae by Philip Barker ('The Plumbatae from Wroxeter') in the BAR edition (but did not research too thoroughly anything more recent I am afraid). He notes that the MS illustrations do not include the bulbous head (mamillata) as described by the Anonymous. He also notes that the plumbatae finds from Wroxeter are 'the clearest evidence for the sort of weapon of which the Anonymous' two missiles were adaptations.' If there has been more recent material which argues differently, I am sorry to say I am unaware of it and did not take it into account in my article.
I haven't seen any hypothetical reconstructions of the plumbata et tribolata.
I hope that helps. They are just some ideas (and a paper trail of where my material came from - if you need scans or anything please let me know). I defer to you in matters of plumbatae however.
The next two AWs will have Vegetius articles from me although I am a little daunted by the prospect of tackling such a well read author (in comparison to my usual fare of unread works (dare I call them masterpieces - at least I think they are). I had to split it in half - one to deal with the history of the text and the authorship and then one on the content and the issues it raises - this plumbatae question raises, perhaps, another issue.
Yours
Murray
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)