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Plumbata
Smile 
(12-19-2018, 10:38 AM)Robert Vermaat Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: You are missing the point.  

Oh I hope not – every plumbata has one. Smile

I appreciate the humor.  The point still remains missed.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: Whether thrown UH or OH the plumbata will have fletching impacting its flight.  So, what makes a dart with fletching fly further when thrown UH than a dart with fletching when thrown OH as you claim?  They both, when properly thrown will have identical launch attitudes, i.e,  point forward, tilted upwards.  

The certainly start point forward, but then the tail starts to overtake them until the flights correct that – the ‘righting itself’ – happens both with UH as well as OH throws. Of course you can judge that ‘poorly executed throws’   that is not what I stated about 'poorly executed throws'   but I’ve seen that happen also in the videos of people who reach up to 80 meters. That may be due to how hard they can throw – I never claimed I was Olympic quality, quite the opposite – or how their plumbatae were constructed. There is not ONE plumbata type, weights differ wildly. Of my own versions I throw very light ones and commercial ones with a totally different weight distribution – and it shows.

Robert:  Frankly, if you can't properly throw overhand, why are you conducting these tests?  Even worse, why do you defend your results as being valid or at least in conformance with other test results?  And then to use those results to make definitive statements about how the darts were thrown in Roman times is not supportable.  It is like asking someone who has never ridden a bike to compare the speed of a bicycle to a tricycle.  The tricycle will win, right? Because the guy keeps falling off the bike. That is what you are doing. [Image: tongue.png]And, based on the videos I have seen, what others have done in their research.  That's why I entered the discussion originally.

I have thrown all my life, taught throwing to countless kids.  I've won championships as a player and as a coach. I am able to look at a thrower's motion and accurately predict future physical problems based on their mechanics. I've thrown plumbata-like devices an order of magnitude more than you have.  I bring experience and knowledge. If I were you, and if you are truly interested in researching the past, then I  would listen closely to what I am being told.  You don't have to believe it, but it should open one's eyes to potential problems with one's assumptions and may allow you to craft future experiments that have some validity.

Overhand throwing is one of the few physical things humans can do better than anything else in the animal kingdom...but it is not simple.  Underhand is simple.  Apes do it.  Overhand is complex, and studies indicate that learning to throw that way needs to start at a young age.  That comports to my experience trying to teach adults how to throw.  Having five more people who can't throw perform your tests is just a waste of time.  Find a baseball or cricket team to recruit throwers from.  When I asked you about your throwing experience you admitted that you are not an Olympian in that regard.  I take from that response that you have zero throwing background.  And you are qualified to discuss this topic how??  I truly don't mean to be insulting, I just really want to know.[Image: smile.png]

BTW, did you ever do a search on 'lawn darts'?  Someone interested in plumbatae would do that as a matter of course, I would think.  The ones with the sharp metal points are no longer allowed but one can find pictures of them on-line quite easily.  The legal ones have soft tips and would be ideal to use for testing battle scenarios.


(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: So I claim directly comparable real world experience.  In fact, I may have more experience throwing plumbata-like objects than anyone on this thread.  

LOL. I know (of) lawn darts, but I’ve never seen them around here. That website denies me access btw.
I don’t know how lawn darts differ from plumbata reproductions, but I’m not optimistic about straight comparisons. Once a guy told me about modern darts being ‘the same as plumbatae’, so UH throws were silly according to him, ‘because everyone knows that darts are thrown OH’.

Btw, how did you throw the lawn dart? How did you hold it?

Not sure what your LOL meant.  I do indeed believe that I have more experience in that regard than anyone I've seen post in this thread.  I was not joking

The lawn dart is held in both UH and OH methods the same way, by holding the shaft in your palm behind the fletching.  UH the thrower's palm will be facing inward  (like it is when carrying a suitcase) throughout the throw, dart pointing to the ground.   OH, at the start of the throwing motion the throwing arm is fully extended behind you with the palm facing upward with the tip pointed backwards.  That allows the shoulder and arm to rotate and align properly to be able to move into the next stage of the motion, which is known as cocking the arm.  In a properly cocked position the dart's fletching will actually be facing upwards and somewhat forward (towards the enemy).  I haven't gone into supination and pronation, loading and releasing the hips, loading and releasing the shoulders, proper follow-through and body alignment, leg drive, and more because that doesn't translate well on paper.  Much more easily understood in the doing.  When throwing OH you use more leverage (there is no cocked position in UH, thus less torsion) and more muscle groups than UH.


I’m not going deeper into our ballistics discussion because either I do not understand enough about the physics behind it, or I don’t seem to be able to explain why I have a different view on that particular subject. To me you can’t discuss the behavior of a plumbata comparing it to a ball, whereas you seem to hold the view that you can. Let’s agree to disagree here and focus on other details.

As mentioned, I have long experience with throwing balls, stones, and devices extraordinarily similar to plumbatae.  And I understand the physics, too.  Wise move giving up that line of discussion.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: I'll attempt to clarify my thinking, (not always a successful venture): A dart thrown overhand or underhand, with equal amounts of energy (forward, angular, lateral momentum), with equal environmental factors, and launched with the same trajectory will land in the same place. Basic physics supports my claim, I believe.

I think the detail in that statement is ‘with the same trajectory’. This is where, in my humble experience, the differences between OH and UH occur? An OH throw has the hand deliver a different (actually more) force than it does with an UH throw.    Different force??  What does that mean?  Are you meaning a whole new type of force or are you meaning to imply a different force vector, or just the amount of force?.      I should use a high-speed camera (if I had one) to look at the difference, but I would suggest (hope it’s correct) that the UH throw naturally takes the plumbata more upwards, and the OH throw takes it more forward? This is were the energy is delivered right? That final flick of the wrist? 
You are on the right path here.  The final wrist flick shouldn't exist in UH throwing. In fact, it will hurt your accuracy because the wrist flick UH (a side to side motion of the wrist when throwing UH)  greatly alters the trajectory (steepens) without adding much power, if any.  OH throwing, the final wrist flick is vital.  In that position the wrist flick is like knocking on a door.  Much more power.  When I teach throwing I get the students to feel the power delivery moving from their feet, legs, hips, torso, shoulders, arms, hands and fingers. 
If you just accept that you are a crappy OH thrower you won't have to try and come up with some attribute of darts that changes based on throwing motion.  Angel

If you throw anything on an upward trajectory it will go up.  The UH throw will result in a flat trajectory if your release point is low enough.  Thus the problem with my pal Flavius Targetus standing in front of me. That your arm in an UH throw is moving upwards facilitates a higher (but with less energy) throw than an OH throw which is moving the stored energy directly along the launch vector.  But you are starting to get it.  Think this way, OH my throwing force is all directed forward, in the direction of the throw. UH, the energy of the force is actually moving upward and only some of that energy is transmitted to the thrown object.  Note that after throwing UH your arm/hand still continues to rise.  That is energy not released into the thrown object.  Contrast that when throwing OH  your arm automatically drops.  Why? Because it has given all its energy to the object.


(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: I also maintain that dart could be thrown en masse, overhand, from formation to a distance farther than that attainable by spear/javelin.

There we agree fully.  What??? How did that happen??

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: That's why I reduced the speed by 20%.   /quote]

Alright, you did not mention that, only ‘modern horse’. I would say a reduction of 30-50% would be more accurate, given that the horse was not fresh out of the stables either.
Maybe I should take off a few more % because the horse may be having an off day or their shakras aren't aligned.  Wink

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: Are you maintaining that enemy cavalry forces didn't attempt to break up formations?  Roman squares, Wellington's squares, the enemy charged them both.  If the Roman's formation cracks then the, say, Gothic cavalry wouldn't be in among them?  

No, I did not say that – they charged them when weakened. Plenty of examples exist indeed of enemy cavalry charging Roman infantry, but when not weakened these always held out. Horses are not easy to train and although you can train a horse to charge straight into a group of armed men (I’ve been part of such training) it would cost you the horse (and the rider) without guarantee of success. It’s a myth that cavalry is there to ‘charge the enemy line’. I know of a 6th-c. battle of 100 Roman infantry against Persian cavalry more than 6 times their number. They held out for hours and only succumbed when the Persians dismounted.

Cavalry keeps up the pressure with higher tactical speed, suppressing enemy light troops from coming forward – and of course countering enemy cavalry. Only armoured cavaly (with armoured horses) are meant to harass the infantry up close and personal, with their long lances (7 foot) keeping out of range if possible. Only when the line greaks is cavalry sent in to break ranks, but that’s a gamble. After the enemy breaks the cavalry really comes into play by attacking the fleeing troops – and that is the moment where the casualties fall, not before.
This is standard Roman tactics btw, and it goes for a lot of their enemies as well.

What are ‘Roman squares’ btw? I mean getting into a tight formation for defense against cavalry, lances/pikes/bayonets facing outward.  You mean the manipular organization or the later Roman organization? They are not comparable to Napoleonic squared or the pike infantry that went before it.   I disagree.  Let's save that for a different discussion.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: OK, now I am confused, did the enemy charge or not charge?  

There are a number of phases in a battle, requiring different counter-measures. I’m talking Late Roman army here - simplified of course (I know this will draw criticim from people who know more about the subject):
1 – after the march to the battlefield, the army is drawn up into the respective battle positions. No enemy contact.
2 – the first contact, usually by arrows, is met by archers. If you have no achers, reaction requires the first shield-wall formation (static) with the first four ranks holding their shields in front and above (a fulcum). Usually cavalry is deployed now to force archers/slingers back behind their own infantry.
3 – First use of plumbatae – if the cavalry comes to close or attempts a charge while the infantry is still deploying). This would be an OH throw straight into the attackers.
4 – closing with the enemy. Romans would await an enemy coming to them, again by an OH plumbata throw from at least the front ranks. I don’t believe in any ‘rotation schemes’ of people throwing and running back while their comrades throw the next ones. Either the darts are passed forward for a next throw, or they throw their 5 darts and that’s it.
5 – closing with an enemy that will not come forward required the mobile shield wall (confusingly also named fulcum), that resembled the old testudo. Suppressing fire (UH plumbatae and archers/slingers would fire over their heads.
6 – infantry main battle. Suppressing fire (UH plumbatae and archers/slingers would fire over their heads.
Some phases could be repeated, or interspaced with cavalry attacks – see above. Mostly one army pulled back or broke, after which the cavalry was the main actor.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: I bet he still went home and continued to spout his unfounded opinion anyway, knowing him.

Two things abou that. By PM, as it’s unrelated to this discussion.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: Soccer comes from the term 'association football'

I know. It just comes across as odd to hear a sport that’s being played worldwide under the name ‘football’ being referred to as something else in one single country, who adopted the name for a different game. Why did they not name it ‘American rugby’ or something like that? Crickets in cricket? Yikes! Smile

American 'Football' predates the European version.  Typical, the Americans are nice to the Europeans by not insisting they name their new sport something not already in use, and we get belittled for it.

I sometimes use this example when discussions are getting off the tracks due to misunderstandings about terminology.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: you reported a following wind (I didn't see wind speed in your report, I'll look again later).  A following wind will carry a higher shot farther than a lower shot.  

It does. Despite not having a wind meter I know the wind was not significant enough to influence the test results. Yet you mention the wind in your document  as having ruined some throws.  Is this also a  due to shortcomings in your English?

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: You also state that the UH method obtained marginally more distance that the OH...yet the farthest throw of DK1 was overhanded.  I know...outlier. /quote]

Actually I blame the lower distance achieved on me getting tired. Your report stated that you were not fatigued (relying on memory for that) After a certain amount of throws you see the distances dropping, which is when I stop. Repeating the test with UH throws first may show a difference, I must try that.
(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: It was great that you included your poor throwing technique as one potential influencing factor on your results.

But of course. I’m no athlete and not having other people taking part in these tests can really make a difference where conclusions come into play.
I’m planning to do a test with 15 plumbata types and at least 5 people, each test throwing one type at least 5 times. Testing is actually quite dull, and one walks up and down a lot retrieving the darts.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: In your report you stated that: 'No wobbling, turning over in flight or similarly unstable behaviour could be observed.'  I must be mis-reading something because it seems that you maintained the opposite in your past couple of responses to me.  Something about the fletching 'righting' the plumbatae.  

See? terminology confusion. My English is not perfect.  
By 'wobbling' I mean wildly erratic behaviour throughout the flight. 
By 'turning over in flight' I mean the dart making a complete 360 in the air. Some darts do this, especially the old Indian reproductions who seem to have an iron rod in the wooden shaft. It prevents breaking but messes up flights.
By 'righting itself' I mean the characteristic behaviour described above, where the dart, after the launch, has the tail attempting to overtake the head.

You mention this frequently.  The tail is not trying to overtake the head because the head is where most of the mass (energy) is.  The fletching allows the dart/arrow to resist lateral, angular and environmental forces (yawing, wind, ) and keep the sharp point directed at the enemy. This is fundamental.

(12-18-2018, 06:13 PM)Brucicus Wrote: Say hello to Sinter Klaas for me.
Nicolaas has already left the country on December 6th, so that’ll have to wait until next year Wink
I hope you got some nice new wooden shoes!  I still have mine from my childhood. And not the cheesy tourist painted ones either. Doesn't Nicolaas have some creepy friend?  What is up with that?

Too bad we can't argue in person while drinking beer and enjoying rijstafel (sp?).

Renatus:  You have it precisely.  When the only throwing option was a lob, they lobbed.

Enjoy!!
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 04-02-2003, 06:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by richard - 04-02-2003, 07:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-02-2003, 10:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Guest - 04-03-2003, 08:56 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 04-03-2003, 01:05 PM
Re: plumbata - by Guest - 04-03-2003, 01:27 PM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 04-03-2003, 01:37 PM
Re: plumbata - by richard - 04-03-2003, 05:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-03-2003, 09:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 04-04-2003, 09:44 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-29-2003, 01:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 07-29-2003, 05:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-15-2003, 05:45 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-16-2003, 05:27 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-16-2003, 07:45 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-16-2003, 06:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-18-2003, 02:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 08-18-2003, 02:42 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-18-2003, 04:10 PM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-18-2003, 05:52 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-18-2003, 10:13 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 08-20-2003, 11:31 AM
Re: plumbata - by Guest - 08-20-2003, 04:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-20-2003, 10:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-29-2003, 03:12 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 08-29-2003, 03:52 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-29-2003, 06:06 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-29-2003, 12:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-29-2003, 01:37 PM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-30-2003, 04:11 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-30-2003, 07:41 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-30-2003, 07:47 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Anonymous - 08-30-2003, 09:55 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-30-2003, 01:37 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Jasper Oorthuys - 08-30-2003, 08:59 PM
Re: Plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 08-31-2003, 05:38 PM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-03-2003, 02:39 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-03-2003, 03:38 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-03-2003, 03:43 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-03-2003, 03:57 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-03-2003, 04:36 AM
Clay or not clay.... - by Richomeres - 09-05-2003, 12:45 PM
Clay or not clay? - by Anonymous - 09-07-2003, 01:21 AM
Re: Plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 09-07-2003, 04:52 PM
Re: Plumbata - by drsrob - 09-07-2003, 05:07 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-08-2003, 10:08 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-09-2003, 02:52 AM
Re: Plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 09-09-2003, 02:05 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-09-2003, 10:06 PM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-10-2003, 02:34 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-10-2003, 02:52 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Guest - 09-12-2003, 08:47 AM
Plumbata - by Anonymous - 09-13-2003, 12:01 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-24-2003, 05:32 AM
Re: Plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 09-24-2003, 12:20 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-24-2003, 09:48 PM
Re: plumbata - by TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 10-23-2003, 01:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-24-2003, 05:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 10-27-2003, 08:36 AM
Re: plumbata - by LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 10-27-2003, 10:10 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 10-27-2003, 11:18 AM
De Rebus Bellicis - by Robert Vermaat - 12-04-2003, 03:34 PM
Plumbatae and shields - by Crispvs - 12-04-2003, 11:34 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 12-05-2003, 12:27 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 12-05-2003, 12:36 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Anonymous - 12-05-2003, 08:05 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 12-05-2003, 08:25 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Crispvs - 12-05-2003, 08:14 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 12-05-2003, 11:48 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Crispvs - 12-12-2003, 01:04 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 12-12-2003, 11:53 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Anonymous - 05-27-2004, 01:20 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 05-27-2004, 04:11 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by aitor iriarte - 05-28-2004, 05:12 AM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by Robert Vermaat - 05-29-2004, 09:57 PM
Re: Plumbatae and shields - by aitor iriarte - 05-30-2004, 07:28 AM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 06-01-2004, 01:39 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-04-2004, 10:55 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-04-2004, 10:57 PM
Comitatus and their Plumbata - by Anonymous - 06-08-2004, 05:31 PM
Staff Sling - by Mithras - 06-09-2004, 08:19 PM
Re: Staff Sling - by Robert Vermaat - 06-09-2004, 10:59 PM
Re: Staff Sling - by aitor iriarte - 06-10-2004, 07:21 AM
Re: plumbata - by Anonymous - 06-10-2004, 08:37 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-10-2004, 09:43 AM
Re: Staff Sling - by Mithras - 06-10-2004, 08:40 PM
Re: Staff Sling - by Robert Vermaat - 06-11-2004, 06:01 AM
Re: Staff Sling - by Mithras - 06-11-2004, 01:42 PM
Re: Staff Sling - by aitor iriarte - 06-11-2004, 04:13 PM
Re: Staff Sling - by Crispvs - 06-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Re: Staff Sling - by aitor iriarte - 06-15-2004, 08:56 AM
Re: Staff Sling - by Robert Vermaat - 06-15-2004, 12:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-28-2005, 05:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 09-28-2005, 06:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-28-2005, 09:53 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2006, 07:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Uwe Bahr - 01-23-2006, 02:01 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-23-2006, 09:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Dan Howard - 01-23-2006, 10:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2006, 11:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2006, 11:08 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-24-2006, 09:08 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 01-24-2006, 09:19 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-24-2006, 04:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-24-2006, 09:33 PM
Re: plumbata - by Dan Howard - 01-24-2006, 09:53 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 01-25-2006, 12:31 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-25-2006, 01:11 PM
Re: plumbata - by arklore70 - 01-25-2006, 01:17 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2006, 02:01 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2006, 02:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-25-2006, 05:19 PM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 01-26-2006, 06:29 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-26-2006, 09:01 AM
Re: plumbata - by LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 01-27-2006, 07:30 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 01-27-2006, 08:02 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 01-27-2006, 04:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2006, 06:08 PM
A very weighty point - by ambrosius - 01-28-2006, 08:51 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-28-2006, 12:53 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-28-2006, 01:02 PM
A leading question - by ambrosius - 01-28-2006, 05:00 PM
Re: A leading question - by Robert Vermaat - 01-28-2006, 11:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-28-2006, 11:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-28-2006, 11:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-29-2006, 12:17 AM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-29-2006, 12:24 AM
Re: A leading question - by ambrosius - 01-29-2006, 11:44 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-02-2006, 07:11 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 02-04-2006, 01:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by Dan Howard - 02-06-2006, 10:15 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2006, 10:59 AM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 02-06-2006, 05:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Re: plumbata - by arklore70 - 02-06-2006, 08:33 PM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 02-06-2006, 09:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-07-2006, 12:46 AM
Re: plumbata - by arklore70 - 02-07-2006, 01:01 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-07-2006, 01:08 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 02-07-2006, 08:36 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-07-2006, 05:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 02-07-2006, 06:31 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Barbara - 03-29-2006, 04:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-29-2006, 07:27 PM
Re: plumbata - by Susanne - 03-29-2006, 09:39 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-29-2006, 10:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Arthes - 03-30-2006, 02:07 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 03-30-2006, 06:06 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-30-2006, 06:22 AM
Re: plumbata - by Barbara - 03-30-2006, 11:53 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-30-2006, 05:26 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 03-31-2006, 02:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 03-31-2006, 05:51 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-31-2006, 08:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 03-31-2006, 10:14 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by Theodosius the Great - 04-01-2006, 11:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 04-01-2006, 11:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-01-2006, 11:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 04-02-2006, 12:00 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-11-2006, 06:26 AM
Looking for an article - by Robert Vermaat - 05-30-2006, 01:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by Dan Howard - 05-31-2006, 12:20 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 05-31-2006, 06:17 AM
Re: plumbata - by hansvl - 05-31-2006, 06:41 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2006, 07:52 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 05-31-2006, 03:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2006, 05:25 PM
Re: plumbata - by hansvl - 05-31-2006, 05:48 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2006, 06:26 AM
Re: plumbata - by hansvl - 06-01-2006, 06:34 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2006, 06:49 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-08-2006, 04:28 PM
Re: plumbata - by hansvl - 06-08-2006, 04:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-08-2006, 05:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 06-11-2006, 01:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2006, 10:08 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 06-12-2006, 10:25 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2006, 01:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 06-12-2006, 02:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by hansvl - 06-12-2006, 05:11 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 06-12-2006, 06:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2006, 07:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2006, 07:14 PM
Plumbatae - by ambrosius - 06-18-2006, 12:55 PM
Re: Plumbatae - by Robert Vermaat - 06-18-2006, 04:57 PM
Re: Plumbatae - by ambrosius - 06-25-2006, 01:24 PM
Re: Plumbatae - by Robert Vermaat - 06-26-2006, 06:25 AM
Re: plumbata - by Theodosius the Great - 08-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-02-2006, 09:18 AM
Re: plumbata - by Theodosius the Great - 08-02-2006, 09:57 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-02-2006, 02:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by Theodosius the Great - 08-02-2006, 08:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-03-2006, 06:07 AM
Re: plumbata - by Theodosius the Great - 08-03-2006, 07:22 AM
Re: plumbata - by FAVENTIANVS - 08-04-2006, 12:07 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-10-2007, 01:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by Hibernicus - 01-10-2007, 01:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-10-2007, 02:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-11-2007, 04:13 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-11-2007, 08:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by Virilis - 01-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 01-11-2007, 08:14 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-11-2007, 08:15 PM
Re: plumbata - by Virilis - 01-11-2007, 08:17 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-11-2007, 08:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by Virilis - 01-11-2007, 08:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 01-11-2007, 09:14 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-11-2007, 11:21 PM
Roman Darts? - by SamKimpton - 01-28-2007, 03:52 AM
Re: plumbata - by SamKimpton - 01-28-2007, 04:05 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-28-2007, 11:10 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-15-2007, 08:21 AM
Re: plumbata - by Virilis - 03-15-2007, 08:45 AM
Re: Roman Darts? - by Marcus Julius - 03-17-2007, 10:01 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-17-2007, 11:06 AM
Re: plumbata - by Tarbicus - 03-20-2007, 07:09 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-20-2007, 07:21 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-20-2007, 08:15 AM
Re: plumbata - by GaiusAquiliusBritannicus - 03-21-2007, 06:14 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-21-2007, 08:23 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-19-2007, 06:16 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-20-2007, 08:40 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-28-2007, 03:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 04-29-2007, 09:25 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 04-30-2007, 07:52 AM
Re: plumbata - by drsrob - 04-30-2007, 10:16 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-30-2007, 11:37 AM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 05-06-2007, 02:00 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2007, 05:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Paulus Claudius Damianus - 06-01-2007, 10:53 PM
plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 06-02-2007, 08:49 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-02-2007, 04:41 PM
plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 06-03-2007, 01:10 AM
Re: plumbata - by garrelt - 06-03-2007, 04:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by Marcus Mummius - 06-03-2007, 04:40 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-03-2007, 05:38 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-03-2007, 05:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2007, 04:18 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 06-08-2007, 07:29 AM
Re: plumbata - by Marcus Julius - 06-09-2007, 04:53 AM
Re: plumbata - by garrelt - 06-09-2007, 07:19 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-09-2007, 08:01 PM
plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 06-10-2007, 04:32 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-10-2007, 03:13 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 06-10-2007, 03:21 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-11-2007, 06:08 AM
Re: plumbata - by Et tu brute - 06-11-2007, 08:11 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 06-11-2007, 12:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 06-21-2007, 10:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 06-22-2007, 05:40 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-22-2007, 11:23 AM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 06-26-2007, 12:20 AM
Re: plumbata - by ambrosius - 06-26-2007, 12:56 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-26-2007, 07:16 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 06-26-2007, 04:23 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Roy - 08-24-2007, 09:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-25-2007, 12:08 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-25-2007, 05:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-25-2007, 08:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-30-2007, 09:13 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-30-2007, 09:52 PM
plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 08-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-31-2007, 01:03 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 08-31-2007, 06:44 AM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-31-2007, 11:22 AM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-31-2007, 12:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-31-2007, 12:13 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-31-2007, 05:21 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-31-2007, 05:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-31-2007, 05:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-31-2007, 05:57 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-31-2007, 06:21 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 08-31-2007, 07:52 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-28-2007, 08:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-28-2007, 08:13 PM
Plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 10-28-2007, 10:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 10-29-2007, 09:43 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-29-2007, 12:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 10-29-2007, 07:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-30-2007, 06:15 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007, 07:39 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007, 07:44 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-30-2007, 06:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-30-2007, 11:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-31-2007, 06:37 AM
Re: plumbata - by LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 10-31-2007, 07:59 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-31-2007, 12:38 PM
Re: plumbata - by LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 10-31-2007, 03:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by Peroni - 10-31-2007, 03:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-31-2007, 06:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-09-2007, 04:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-09-2007, 05:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 11-09-2007, 05:38 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-09-2007, 05:52 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-09-2007, 06:28 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-14-2007, 04:26 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-14-2007, 04:33 PM
Plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 11-14-2007, 08:33 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-14-2007, 10:43 PM
Plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 11-14-2007, 11:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-15-2007, 12:15 AM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-15-2007, 09:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by JVL - 11-19-2007, 03:00 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-19-2007, 03:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by JVL - 11-19-2007, 03:34 PM
Re: plumbata - by Peroni - 11-19-2007, 03:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-20-2007, 04:33 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-04-2008, 12:46 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 04-04-2008, 07:42 AM
Re: plumbata - by Chilperic - 04-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 04-04-2008, 02:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Chilperic - 04-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 04-04-2008, 03:40 PM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 04-04-2008, 04:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Salvianus - 04-05-2008, 12:21 AM
Plumbatae in GB - by Davidus77 - 04-05-2008, 06:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 04-06-2008, 10:07 AM
Re: Plumbatae in GB - by Robert Vermaat - 04-06-2008, 02:01 PM
Plumbatae - by Davidus77 - 04-06-2008, 08:58 PM
Re: Plumbatae - by Robert Vermaat - 04-06-2008, 09:42 PM
Re: plumbata - by Salvianus - 04-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Re: plumbata - by Chilperic - 04-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Re: plumbata - by Salvianus - 04-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-12-2008, 01:02 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-12-2008, 02:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by gaiusseptimiuslucianus - 04-14-2008, 03:11 AM
Re: plumbata - by thecrocman (anton) - 04-14-2008, 04:55 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-18-2008, 03:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 04-18-2008, 07:37 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-20-2008, 05:40 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-20-2008, 05:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 04-20-2008, 06:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 04-21-2008, 02:53 PM
Re: plumbata - by martijn.wijnhoven - 04-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Re: plumbata - by martijn.wijnhoven - 04-21-2008, 08:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by martijn.wijnhoven - 04-22-2008, 06:21 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by martijn.wijnhoven - 04-29-2008, 10:47 AM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-29-2008, 11:30 AM
Re: plumbata - by aitor iriarte - 04-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-04-2008, 07:25 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-04-2008, 07:28 PM
Plumbata origins? - by Paullus Scipio - 05-06-2008, 07:17 AM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 05-06-2008, 04:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-06-2008, 08:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by Iagoba - 05-07-2008, 06:41 AM
Re: plumbata - by Arahne - 07-02-2008, 10:21 AM
Re: plumbata - by Bran ap Maclou - 07-02-2008, 11:53 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-02-2008, 08:06 PM
Re: plumbata - by Bran ap Maclou - 07-02-2008, 08:21 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-02-2008, 11:45 PM
Re: plumbata - by Arahne - 07-03-2008, 08:42 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-03-2008, 07:05 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-19-2009, 12:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-19-2009, 12:15 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-31-2009, 03:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-31-2009, 05:53 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2009, 04:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Re: plumbata - by Caballo - 02-02-2009, 04:03 PM
Re: plumbata - by Caballo - 03-07-2009, 06:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 03-08-2009, 01:20 AM
Re: plumbata - by Caballo - 03-08-2009, 08:36 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-08-2009, 08:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-09-2009, 07:51 AM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 03-09-2009, 12:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-09-2009, 12:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-11-2009, 08:36 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-11-2009, 09:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-12-2009, 07:06 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-12-2009, 07:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-12-2009, 08:26 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-13-2009, 05:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Caballo - 03-13-2009, 05:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Caballo - 03-14-2009, 08:16 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2009, 03:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2009, 04:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-14-2009, 05:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 03-14-2009, 05:43 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2009, 05:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-14-2009, 05:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2009, 06:45 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-03-2009, 10:30 PM
Re: plumbata - by Crispvs - 04-06-2009, 12:37 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-06-2009, 03:38 PM
Re: plumbata - by Crispvs - 04-06-2009, 04:12 PM
Breakage of Plumbatae - by Theodosius the Great - 10-14-2009, 09:19 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-15-2009, 10:57 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-15-2009, 10:37 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-15-2009, 11:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Re: plumbata - by fasta - 10-16-2009, 07:52 PM
Re: plumbata - by John Conyard - 10-16-2009, 08:07 PM
Re: plumbata - by fasta - 10-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Re: plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 09:41 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-19-2009, 10:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 10-19-2009, 11:02 PM
Re: plumbata - by Paullus Scipio - 10-20-2009, 12:05 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 10-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 10-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-02-2010, 10:27 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 05-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-03-2010, 08:20 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 05-03-2010, 08:50 AM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 05-23-2010, 08:15 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 05-24-2010, 07:58 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 05-25-2010, 02:27 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 05-25-2010, 07:05 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-27-2010, 12:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Ron Andrea - 07-28-2010, 11:36 AM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 07-29-2010, 07:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 07-29-2010, 08:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 07-29-2010, 11:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-29-2010, 11:52 PM
Re: plumbata - by Astiryu1 - 07-29-2010, 11:56 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 07-30-2010, 07:23 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jvrjenivs - 07-30-2010, 08:27 AM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 07-30-2010, 09:38 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jvrjenivs - 07-30-2010, 09:39 AM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 07-30-2010, 09:48 AM
Re: plumbata - by ioannes sebald - 07-30-2010, 01:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-30-2010, 03:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 07-30-2010, 05:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-30-2010, 07:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 07-30-2010, 08:14 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 07-31-2010, 05:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-01-2010, 09:17 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-02-2010, 07:43 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-02-2010, 08:27 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by Ron Andrea - 08-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Mithras - 08-19-2010, 10:42 PM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 08-20-2010, 04:14 AM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-23-2010, 07:28 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-25-2010, 06:53 AM
Re: plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 08-25-2010, 09:37 AM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-25-2010, 06:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-25-2010, 07:23 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-26-2010, 09:33 AM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-26-2010, 06:32 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-26-2010, 06:48 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 08-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Re: thanks, - by M. Demetrius - 04-11-2011, 03:54 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-24-2011, 04:18 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2011, 02:55 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-01-2011, 04:23 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-02-2011, 06:19 PM
Re: plumbata - by Matt Collettivs Ave - 06-02-2011, 07:17 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-17-2011, 12:46 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 06-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-27-2011, 09:13 PM
Re: Plumbata - by MDF - 09-27-2011, 09:39 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-27-2011, 09:56 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Vindex - 09-28-2011, 02:45 AM
Re: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 09-29-2011, 02:22 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Virilis - 09-29-2011, 09:25 AM
Re: Plumbata - by MDF - 09-29-2011, 06:35 PM
Re: Plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 09-30-2011, 07:49 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-04-2011, 02:36 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Longovicium - 12-29-2011, 02:15 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-29-2011, 02:42 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Longovicium - 12-30-2011, 12:35 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2012, 06:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 02-06-2012, 06:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2012, 07:45 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-06-2012, 08:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2012, 08:26 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-06-2012, 08:31 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2012, 08:40 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-06-2012, 09:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 02-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 12:23 AM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-16-2012, 01:57 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 02:12 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jay - 02-16-2012, 02:21 AM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-16-2012, 02:25 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 02:40 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 02:45 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jay - 02-16-2012, 03:00 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jay - 02-16-2012, 03:13 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 04:10 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jay - 02-16-2012, 04:15 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 06:34 AM
Re: plumbata - by Jay - 02-16-2012, 09:14 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-16-2012, 02:17 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 02:19 PM
Re: plumbata - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 02-16-2012, 03:39 PM
Re: Plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 02-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 08:10 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Jay - 02-17-2012, 03:52 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-17-2012, 06:33 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Jay - 02-17-2012, 07:51 AM
Re: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-17-2012, 01:52 PM
Re: Plumbata - by Jay - 02-17-2012, 08:38 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-17-2012, 08:47 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-28-2012, 04:31 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-23-2012, 08:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-14-2013, 09:01 PM
Plumbata - by Virilis - 03-14-2013, 09:12 PM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-14-2013, 10:19 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 03-14-2013, 11:19 PM
Plumbata - by Gesith - 03-14-2013, 11:25 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 03-14-2013, 11:30 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 03-15-2013, 03:08 AM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-15-2013, 03:10 AM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 03-15-2013, 03:02 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-15-2013, 05:08 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-15-2013, 05:13 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-15-2013, 05:18 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 03-15-2013, 07:16 PM
Plumbata - by Gesith - 03-15-2013, 10:53 PM
Plumbata - by Tim - 03-15-2013, 11:14 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 03-15-2013, 11:30 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-18-2013, 04:47 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-18-2013, 04:52 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2013, 12:32 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 06-12-2013, 07:03 PM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-12-2013, 07:09 PM
Plumbata - by Semisalis Abruna - 06-13-2013, 08:54 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-13-2013, 11:02 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-13-2013, 11:07 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-14-2013, 10:21 AM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-14-2013, 11:57 AM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 06-15-2013, 09:02 AM
Re: plumbata - by M. Demetrius - 06-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-17-2013, 07:45 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-17-2013, 07:52 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-06-2014, 01:46 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 05-06-2014, 07:15 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-13-2014, 02:01 PM
Plumbata - by Pavel AMELIANVS - 05-13-2014, 02:09 PM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 05-13-2014, 02:12 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-13-2014, 02:24 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 05-13-2014, 04:08 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-13-2014, 05:29 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 05-13-2014, 09:56 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-14-2014, 09:29 AM
Re: plumbata - by Miroslav Vujovic - 06-10-2014, 12:29 PM
Re: plumbata - by Virilis - 06-10-2014, 01:33 PM
Plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 06-10-2014, 01:57 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 06-10-2014, 02:24 PM
Plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 06-10-2014, 03:08 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2014, 10:45 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-12-2014, 10:51 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-19-2014, 10:53 AM
Re: plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 10-12-2014, 06:05 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-09-2014, 02:00 PM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 12-09-2014, 11:45 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-10-2014, 08:05 AM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 08:41 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 08:55 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 08:57 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 09:00 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 09:03 PM
Plumbata - by John Melfordicus - 02-11-2015, 09:06 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-08-2015, 06:10 PM
Plumbata - by Tim NC - 06-08-2015, 09:55 PM
Plumbata - by Markus Montanvs - 06-09-2015, 03:22 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-09-2015, 06:18 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-24-2015, 12:12 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 06-24-2015, 01:28 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-25-2015, 06:30 AM
Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 06-26-2015, 08:56 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-28-2015, 09:49 AM
Plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 06-28-2015, 12:09 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-28-2015, 12:37 PM
Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 06-28-2015, 12:41 PM
Plumbata - by Markus Montanvs - 06-29-2015, 02:43 AM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 07-12-2015, 08:01 AM
Plumbata - by Robert - 07-12-2015, 08:58 AM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 07-12-2015, 06:00 PM
Plumbata - by Renatus - 07-23-2015, 03:34 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-24-2015, 12:31 PM
Plumbata - by Vindex - 07-26-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2016, 01:35 PM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 08-03-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-14-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 06-08-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-23-2016, 07:47 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-11-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-22-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-24-2016, 11:43 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-25-2016, 11:53 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 11-27-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-09-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-14-2016, 01:32 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Nathan Ross - 12-14-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-14-2016, 09:00 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 12-15-2016, 04:40 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-15-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 12-15-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 12-15-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 02-17-2017, 09:14 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-18-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Longovicium - 05-22-2017, 03:06 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-25-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 10-11-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 05-30-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Longovicium - 07-25-2017, 04:16 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Longovicium - 05-30-2018, 08:01 PM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 05-30-2018, 09:23 PM
RE: Plumbata - by nikgaukroger - 07-06-2018, 02:25 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-07-2018, 04:59 PM
RE: Plumbata - by nikgaukroger - 07-07-2018, 09:20 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-05-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-12-2018, 11:30 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-05-2018, 04:23 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-13-2018, 06:36 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-17-2018, 01:58 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-18-2018, 02:57 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-18-2018, 09:40 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-18-2018, 06:13 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-19-2018, 10:38 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-19-2018, 06:55 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-19-2018, 12:12 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 12-19-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-19-2018, 02:22 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-19-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-19-2018, 09:32 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-19-2018, 11:07 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-20-2018, 07:49 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-22-2018, 05:30 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-24-2018, 09:17 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Mark Hygate - 12-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-24-2018, 05:03 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-24-2018, 06:11 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-26-2018, 02:03 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-29-2018, 12:18 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-29-2018, 08:14 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-29-2018, 03:24 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 12-29-2018, 03:51 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 12-29-2018, 04:11 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-02-2019, 02:12 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-02-2019, 10:12 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-04-2019, 05:44 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-05-2019, 05:38 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-05-2019, 07:19 PM
RE: Plumbata - by kavan - 01-05-2019, 10:26 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-06-2019, 12:04 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-06-2019, 02:32 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-06-2019, 04:03 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-06-2019, 05:45 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-06-2019, 06:40 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-06-2019, 07:40 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-06-2019, 09:20 PM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 02-08-2019, 08:51 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 04-11-2019, 11:56 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-07-2020, 07:14 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Nathan Ross - 01-07-2020, 07:41 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-08-2020, 11:47 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-09-2020, 07:38 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Nathan Ross - 01-09-2020, 11:34 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 01-09-2020, 06:48 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-10-2020, 05:23 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 03-24-2020, 05:15 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-15-2021, 07:13 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-17-2021, 06:51 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Mark Hygate - 01-18-2021, 10:26 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-19-2021, 05:35 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Steve Kaye - 01-19-2021, 10:21 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-19-2021, 04:50 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-19-2021, 06:13 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-19-2021, 07:34 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Brucicus - 01-19-2021, 06:51 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-19-2021, 09:46 PM
RE: Plumbata - by kavan - 01-20-2021, 09:36 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-20-2021, 08:22 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-02-2021, 11:20 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2021, 12:46 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-06-2021, 02:21 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-06-2021, 02:31 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-21-2021, 05:09 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2021, 08:15 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 01-21-2021, 09:13 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-07-2021, 01:17 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-07-2021, 03:10 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-07-2021, 06:36 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-07-2021, 09:55 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-08-2021, 09:01 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-08-2021, 09:32 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-09-2021, 12:32 AM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-12-2021, 12:16 PM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 02-26-2021, 10:57 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-27-2021, 09:48 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 02-27-2021, 05:49 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Renatus - 02-27-2021, 07:52 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 02-28-2021, 10:36 AM
RE: Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 02-28-2021, 07:08 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-09-2021, 02:26 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-10-2021, 02:42 PM
RE: Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-20-2023, 12:07 AM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-22-2011, 10:09 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert - 11-22-2011, 10:59 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 11-22-2011, 11:24 PM
Re: plumbata - by Vindex - 03-23-2014, 08:44 PM
Re: plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-23-2014, 08:49 PM
Re: plumbata - by Renatus - 03-23-2014, 10:35 PM
Re: plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-23-2014, 11:06 PM
Re: plumbata - by ValentinianVictrix - 03-24-2014, 10:03 AM
Re: plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-24-2014, 11:01 AM
Re: plumbata - by Renatus - 03-24-2014, 02:33 PM
Re: plumbata - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-24-2014, 02:58 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 03-27-2014, 03:18 PM
Re: plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-16-2014, 01:23 PM
Plumbata - by brennivs - tony drake - 09-17-2014, 10:06 AM
Plumbata - by Robert Vermaat - 09-18-2014, 07:00 AM

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