Plumbata

[Renatus]

This argument is going round in circles and I'm getting fed up with it. Let me try to make my position clear and then give up.

Your whole argument seems to have been that Americans know how to throw and Europeans don't. If I have misinterpreted it, that is how it has come over. I am not saying that Roman soldiers could under no circumstances have reached the same standard. That would be absurd. What I am saying is that we cannot assume it and base our analysis on that assumption. It is possible that some may have reached that standard but many, probably the majority, will not. I, therefore, prefer the middling position, neither super-competent nor wholly inadequate but somewhere in between, which conforms to the human condition.

You assume that the appropriate grip is at the end of the shaft behind the flights, which you apparently consider to justify your conclusion that a baseball-style of throw is the correct one. This is not unequivocally established. It is a grip adopted by researchers who felt that a javelin-style delivery did not produce a long enough range. What I want to see is how far a plumbata can be thrown javelin-style after a lengthy period of intense training. After all, that is what the Romans were used to. They had no need, necessarily, to devise some exotic form of delivery outside their natural expertise. There appear to be indications that this could satisfy Vegetius' contention that plumbatae outranged javelins, so let a concerted effort be made to see if this can be achieved. It is, frankly, all we need. Ranges of great length are an indulgence.

EDIT The addition to your post was added while I was formulating my reply. I do not dissent from any of that.