Marathon 2011

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Stefane,these conditions apply only to what will be done INSIDE the archaeological site of the tomb,right? I mean,we can limit our activities there to very few ones,and do all the rest in some other place,either private or public. For instance honor guard and speeches and photographs in the tumulous,and all the rest outside of it.
I think the event should best be for 10,11,12 September,but we need visit the tomb as a group only the last day. To these dates seem to agree all parties so far,but we haven't heard from British and German groups.
Stefane,what limitations do we have for the number of participants? I mean,what if we said 100? How much does one have to pay and how will this be done for all groups from around the world? Also,when should it be done?

As far as i know,the Marathon plain is motly cultivated,with many greenhouses,and there are also some houses and other permanent buildings. I don't know if we could rent an uncaltivated farmland for a few days? Heck,only two acres would be more than enough!
There is also a camping in the marathon bay called "Ramnous" but i read really bad reviews!
On the other hand i was thinking,is there something illegal in camping out in the open,perhaps on the foot of the mountain in Vrana or lower near the shrine of Heracles. These two places are also suggested are the most probable sites of the greek camp and as far as i can see from google maps,there is nothing built in there,only forest. It would be both authentic for re-enacting,since we'd camp in the real campsite, and we'd have a great view of the whole plain. The tomb is about 1600m from there.

So,step one: can we have a YES for the proposed dates from all participants? Namely,Athenea Promakhos,Taxeis Plataion,Koryvantes,any other person or group that wants to send representatives. Athanasios Porporis,myself and a friend are possitive for 10,11,12 September.

Khaire
Giannis

[Kineas]

Sept 11 and 12 are not only good dates, they are the ONLY dates we can do. Please, this is not some odd kind of threat--but we've already planned our whole event schedule for the year--our other periods do their sched for 2 years in advance (so my Brigade just voted on our 2012 sched).

Also, I thought this as already agreed?

At the moment we have 8 hoplites, five correctly kitted women, and we'll camp as hoplites in the field--very little baggage and probably no tents. And cook that way as well. And we may still get more...

Stefanos, I thought that we were no longer bothering with the authorities? I certainly wouldn't--we don't need a permit to do anything as long as we don't need publicity. We can just go and do it, and smile and look like foreign fools if the police come. Asking permission only allows authority to refuse it. We offered to do this by the book and every level of Greek government failed. I for one no longer feel I owe ANYTHING to the Greek government...

Seriously--and I'm prepared to be firm on this--NO LICENSE. No permissions. We'll do as we want--what on earth can they do--arrest me? That would amuse me and I think get them some truly bad publicity ("Bestselling author arrested in Greece trying to reenact Marathon" strikes me as pretty good publicity for me and bad for Greece..)

And nobody will care anyway. So--respectfully disagree Stefanos. We tried to do all this 'By the book'. Now I'll say for the Canadians--if you are going to let bureaucrats decide anything, we may have to reconsider. I thought that we had agreed to do this on the basis of NO INTERACTION with the government at any level. That's certainly what I understood from all discussions until I read your post.

Stefanos--are you in charge of this event? Are you the organizer? Please state right out if that's the case. And why question the date? We set a date. Why get a license? Please explain.

Need you to answer these immediately--I thought all this was a done deal and I sold it at ourt meeting as if it was, and here we are at square zero. I'm annoyed.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

On a calmer tone,Stefane,after all i think Christian is right for his concerns.
The Marathon tomb is open site,there are no tickets or anything. It is an open site,always accessible. So why should one have a license to visit it in kit? We agreed that this is a private event,in fact an international meeting is a more aproprate term,with no planned activities,filming or media coverage. Every partie that is attending the meeting is well aware of that.
As an effect,Christian,there is virtually no person in charge of the event. Stefanos might have done well to ask what would be needed if an official event was planned inside the Marathon tomb site,but i think that nothing of this is needed for our cause.
Different groups from around the world will be in Greece next automn,and all of us will meet at Marathon in September 10,11,12. Marathon is a big place,not just a partially fenced few meters tall hill. We will camp all together and re-enact the situation in the greek camp just before the battle. We will line up and experiment together, but we don't plan to have an audience to instruct or re-enact the battle for the. And i see no legal reason preventing us marching in kit towards the tomb.
Marathon is a cultvated area,with many greenhouses and farmlands. There is little chance we will have problem with the authorities,and Christian is right that we can only do harm messing with them anymore. We have done it enough.
So on to Marathon! Like the Athenians and Plataians, we need some good will, common cause and good comunication,and nothing more to march to victory!
Khairete
Giannis

[Robert Vermaat]

So why should one have a license to visit it in kit?

I have of course no knowledge about Greek weapon laws, but here in The Netherlands it's not allowed to walk around in public space with swords & spears etc.
It is however possible without any permit, when you are invited by an organiser or when you have received permission.

Since the Marathon site (I think) is public space, public will be present during your event, and it might be wise to seek permission for this, since the site is accessible to all. How will you prevent visitors from flocking to your activities, which will of course attract a lot of attention, even press coverage once it's clear what you are doing?
Have you taken steps to deal with the police, the local counsil, the public? If I were a local counsillor and I would be surprised by a few dozen men with long pointy sticks running around with the public among them, fear of safety issues would cause me to close it down (yes, worst-case scenario, I know, better be aware of that).

I'm afraid that although you want it to be a private event, the place and time of it will prevent that. I think it's wise to seek permission and have a liaison with the local governemnt & police, and after that, even with the press.

[Kineas]

Good points--pardon my frustration yesterday--I can only plead my third day without sleep! My apologies to Stephanos and everyone else.

See you all at Marathon!

[hoplite14gr]

I will try to get the permissions.

Governments world wide have a bad record of using their authority to press the letter of the law and annoy people.
The law has flows but they can still use it to mess things up...

I for my self at least respect the efforts of honorable people who will travel from half a world away to pay homage to those who defended the principle of questioning authority!

So I will not allow myself to say "What the use?"
2500 years ago 11000 men did not bother to ask this question. 250 of them paid it with their lives.

Let the administration take the blame for failing to honor them....

Push push and shove.....

Its the phalanx way...

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Stefane,in your previous gatherings in Thermopylae or Plataia or Salamis,did you need licenses? I had always the impression that in all other gatherings in Thermopylae of different groups that have been going there for years,no licensewas needed. Note that we are not intending to camp inside the archaeological site,something that would gather the eyes of tourists and authorities,and would also be insane. Merely visit the place.
The Athenian tomb is not an archaeological site like the Agora in Athens,Olympia,Delphi etc. It's much more like Thermopylae or the ancient site of Plataia, a monument by the old road, not fenced or guarded,and with minimal tourists going there.
Khaire
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

Sorry for late reply. Too busy with my article I guess.

The CAPITAL mistake we did from 2005 was that we were only invited by other clubs associations.
These people are not very serious in handling various things. Their questionable past behavior has caused all types of problems and still does.
In the "Olympian Zeus stelae issue" they had license for gathering but not license to bring -even imitation weapons in the site!

So concerning licenses. If you get them locally its up to the whim of the local archeological authority.
In Platea they give it with no big fuss. In Salamis too.
Thermopylae is a true public place so a simple gathering license from the local police authority and a fire-security certificate from the fire brigade is enough.

Arround the tomb and museum the place is now marked and the law applies as I posted earlier
Marathon authority causes all type of problems and you are heavily dependent on the influence of the local mayor.

My plan is to get the license directly from the Central Archeological Directorate in the Culture Ministry so the Local Marathon Authority must comply with it!

Kind regards

[Dan D'Silva]

Hello all,

I'm starting a new topic to try to get the Persian forces' heads together. If you know anyone who might be interested I'd be grateful if you could put them in touch.

Thanks!

[Avtandil85]

Greetings

I wanted only to add that in Poland we are just in the making of hoplite group numbering eventually more than 10 hoplites. If we succeed in preparing our equipment and training till September there is a large chance that we would appear at Marathon.


Regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hello
This is very good news! Good luck with your new group. Don't forget to keep us posted with your progress from time to time. And certainly advertise your comming to the Marathon meeting as soon as possible.
Also,welcome in RAT. It is a rule that all members have to write their first name on their signature. The forum mods will tell you soon or late.
Khaire
Giannis

[Teodor]

That's great! So there is another group in Poland except people from Legio I Adiutrix and its friends that are reenacting hoplites

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hello people!
I have just come back from an exciting meeting with Christian Cameron(Kineas)in Athens.
We visited the plain of Marathon together. The archaeological site of the tomb of the Athenians is a great place for the re-enacting that we want to do there. It is a large enough fenced area with a beautiful olive tree grove and also enough open space. In the middle there is the hill of the tomb of the 192 Athenian hoplites that fell in the battle. There is no other ancient ruins or buildings inside the site. There were very few visitors (only a man with his young son) and even in summer the tourists are very few. The meeting will be in mid September,so again out of the heavily touristic season anyway.
There was just one man in the ticket office in the entrance (3 euros/person and you can visit the museum of Marathon with the same ticket).
I hope that Stefanos will guarantee any permits that might be necessary to enter the site in kit.
Now camping site. I have asked for information on camping in the countryside of Agrieliki mountain (greek camp position) in the Marathon museum and i have gotten a contact of a person in the municipality of Marathon that could be of help. However,in the worst case of not being given a campsite, Christian and i have found a great place to camp just over the Marathon museum. The museum is in the archaeological site of the tomb of the Plataians. In September dozens of people could make a cold camp in that place,which has the advantages of being both isolated,even if very close the museum, being in the actual camp site of part of the greek army and being a balcony on the foothills of Agrieliki with a magnificent view of the entire plain of Marathon. From there you can sea the Persian camp,the great marshes,the beach of Marathon and the place where the actual battle took place.
We plan to camp there without tents for three days.We won't be able to have fires for heat,but we could cook with charcoal fires inside portable pottery,much like the ancient greeks would have done.
I am much in favor of this option,though it is only an alternative plan in case we're not guaranteed a camping site. One sollution might be to cooperare with the scouts that often camp at Marathon in hundrets. Lastly,i have learnt that there are two campings in the beach of Marathon,but they usually work with organized tourists.
I have to sort this out,and i will inform you all when i have a concrete answer.
I would like to have an update from all groups on wether or not you are comming and how many of you would be. Same as individuals that you want to attend. Also tell me if you would like to camp with us or rather stay somewhere else.
The people that will camp are Christian and members of his Plataian group, Athanasios Porporis of the Hoplitikon of Melbourne possibly with a couple of his men, and myself with one or two people that will come with me. I am waiting for replies from all other interested parties.
Khairete
Giannis

[Kineas]

Khairete!

It is too long since I have posted here, and my apologies. Real life, different time periods, and new book contracts!

However, I'm delighted to echo Giannis to say--yes, there will be a (small) reenactment at Marathon. I've started a Facebook event page HERE for the Plataean attendees but I'd be happy to use it as the general attendance roster.

I've posted a draft schedule at My Hippeis site which shouldn't cause anyone grief. This is a draft, suggested sched for some public interpretation that doesn't involve sparring or any safety issues. Of course, we still don't have direct permission from any of the sites to use the sites, so I'm planning on a "moveable feast" system of reenactment that will allow us to do our show wherever we end up....

We're all going to know different drill or no drill, and some of us will know the Paean of Apollo and some won't, and some will know the pyricche we're doing and some won't, and every group will have its own ways and perhaps its own show, and ALL THAT IS FINE. I'm not trying to be Polemarch--I merely feel its time to show some organization. SO PLEASE if you have ideas... let's hear them!

At this time, we plan to rent room is a local hotel--some people won't want to camp, even in our group, and it is nice to have a swimming pool...

We'll be happy to help pick people and equipment up from the airport. All such support needs to be carefully planned, however.

Finally, at least three of us from Canada will have alternate Persian/Thracian kit. It would be fantastic to hear that some Persians were going.

Stefane, is it possible at this late date to get a permission to just VISIT the Akropolis in kit?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

The vice-mayor of Marathon has promissed us a camping site. He offered two possible sites, one near the moder village of Marathon,next to the stadium, and another in the pine forest of Schoinias beach. This second site seems better,since it is inside the plain of Marathon,whereas the modern village,whilst very near,it is not in the battle site. It also offers shadow which will be needed,since it will be inside the pine forest. It might offer access to the beach which is great for a numbers of reasons. Lastly, it is in the exact site of the last phase of the battle,and perhaps the fiersest,where the Persians fought for their lives and the saviour of their own fleet. This is also where a number of the most famous Atehnians fell,including the Polemarch Kallimachos. So,people, we will have a camp there!
I am in contact with the B' Archaological Office responsibe for the Marathon plain for one hour access to the tombs of the Athenians and Plataeans. The municipality is not responsible for them but offered to support us. I don't have a response from the archaeology office yet.
The site of the Athenian Trophy though i think it is public space,since the real trophy is now inside the museum of marathon.
And the Spanish hoplites will finally be represented to the event!
Khairete
Giannis