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Quote:...So should we redefine 'Thureos' as " Greek term for a (large?)bossed shield, originally of 'barleycorn' celtic type, but coming to be a generic term for (large?) bossed shields of any type
I admit to having tossed that out off the top of my head, but yes. If to a greek the important thing was the fact that it had a robust boss, indicative of a single grip, then the change from "barleycorn" to round would not be such a profound difference.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Quote:In this conversation we keep calling them "barley corn" shields because of the boss and reinforcement. What if the Thureos, here meaning door stone, refers like our "barleycorn" to the boss shape, not the shield shape?
If so, then any shape, oval round, diamond, shield that has such a boss would be a thureos. As to why this might be an important designation, aside from the fact it mirrors our own usage, is that the shield having a central grip beneath the boss would differentiate nicely from earlier double-grip shields.
Quote: ....a very attractive hypothesis, except that it doesn't allow for Ruben's original point, namely that Polybius uses this word for the original 'popilium' circular hide shields.......however.......the 'popilium' shields do have a boss...........
The problem is that the "popanum" shield doesn't even have a barley corn boss- its boss is just plain round. If you judge something a thureos by those standards, literally any shield with a boss is a thureos.
Quote:......but at least the ancestry of these shields is clear....whilst they may be circular, they have clear 'spina' and 'barleycorn' bosses with ( almost certainly) horizontal grips which makes this....
But the thing is that we have some depictions of such cavalry carrying large round, rimless shields without spina or boss...
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Quote:If you judge something a thureos by those standards, literally any shield with a boss is a thureos.
In short, yes. What is important is the origin of the term, not its later application. Words commonly lose their specificity over time and when labelling new items from other cultures.
If the original large, single-grip shields that greeks encountered had a barley corn or door-stone shaped boss, then the name would have been established at the time. When the boss then becomes round, it would be even more confusing to change the name to something else for what is essentially the same shield.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
