"National Roman Legion"

[jkaler48]

A common command set is another aspect of a "National Legion" question.
Here is what I have put together so far.
I am not making any judgements here on who is right or wrong just listing what is in use. I will be happy to add your unit's comand set also so just email it me or post it here.


ROMAN LEGION COMMAND SET CONSOLIDATED REFERENCE
Version 4

First you will see Command sets from a number of different units
1. Legio III Cyr
2. A few from Jeff in Belgium
3. LEGIO X GEM (Netherlands)
4. LEGIO VI Vic (California)
5. LEGIO XX
6. LEG VI Ferrata Fidelas Constans
7. Ermine Street Guard (UK)

At the end I am working to consolidate all command sets in the following format:
English Command Latin commands and alternatives Legions used by
Description of How to perform if needed/Available



Leg III Cyr added:

Ad Dextrum Rotata Rotate to the right Leg II Cyr
Ad Senestre Rotata Rotate to the left Leg II Cyr
Pila Parati Ready to throw Pila Leg II Cyr, Leg V

From Jef in Belgium:
"Pila deorsum": For grounding the pilum on the but spike.

To lay down the pila we use the following command sequence:

"Pila deponite!": this is the warning signal qo that the soldiers know they will have to lay down their pilum.

And then: "Deorsum...duo...tres": on this command the soldiers kneel down together. They all get down onto their right knee and the hand holding the pilum is on the ground.

Then the command: "Sursum...duo..tres": all soldiers rise up together.

LEGIO X GEM (Netherlands)
Drill Commands

Unfortunately the original commands from the 1st century A.D. have not been saved.

For this reason we choose for a logical mix between the drill commands of the Ermine Street Guard Armatura (weapon Drill) and that of legio XX VV.

The commands have been worked out in a way they are suitable for us.

The drill itself has been taken over from a combination of bits from Vegetius of Julius caesar, the 16th century Spanish pikemen drill and practical experience with the equipment.
Most of the commandos are given with a short pause before the last part of the word (usually "... te"), this is done to give the men some time to think.

The action which follows on the commando is carried out on the last piece of the word, therefore generally on "....te".

General rule is that most of the action and alignance moves onto the right side.

This means that at one row everyone holds the front and back position of the person to his right.

On the command of Duo Ordines, from 1 to 2 in a row, every even person steps to the right side of the person in front of him.

On the command of Quator Ordines, from 2 to 4 in a row, every even row splits up and both step up to the outer side of the person in front of him.
On the command of Liniam Formate all rows split up in the right order and form one line.

The Testudo Formate is made when the first row lifts up their shields and the rows behind them put their shields on top as a roof.

This formation is also known as the turtleformation.
A short list of the commands used by us:

AD SIGNA (Fall in)
STATE (Attention)
LAXATE (Stand at ease)
SCUTA SURSUM (Pick up shield)
SCUTA DEORSUM (Put down shield)
PILA SURSUM (Pick up spear)
PILA DEORSUM (Put down spear)
PILA SCUTA SURSUM (Pick up shield and spear)
AD DEXTRAM (Turn right, at place)
AD SINISTRAM (Turn left, at place)
IN LOCO CALCATE(At place march)
DEXTRORSUM VERTITE (Turn right)
SINISTRORSUM VERTITE(Turn left)
RETRORSUM VERTITE
(Turn around and march)
UNUM ORDINEM FACITE
(Form 1 in a row)
DUOS ORDINES FACITE
(Form 2 in a row)
QUATTUOR ORDINES FACITE
(Form 4 in a row)
OCTO ORDINES FACITE
(Form 8 in a row)
SALUTATE
(Salute)
AB SIGNIS DISCEDITE (Fall out)
PILA SUMITE (Take up spear)
PROCEDITE (March)
CONSISTITE (Halt)
INTER ACCELERATE (Faster march)
INTER TARDATE (Slower march)
GLADIOS STRINGITE (Draw sword)
GLADIOS RECONDITE(Stick sword back)
PILA VOLLITE (Take spear throwing positions)
PILA IACITE(Throw spear)
PRIMUS ORDO, UNUM PASSUM PROCEDITE(Row 1, 1 step forward)
NOVISSIMUS ORDO, DUOS PASSUS PROCEDITE (Last row, 2 steps forward)
UNUM PASSUM RECIDITE (1 step back)
NUMEROS CLAMATE (Numbering)
Numeros Latini (Latin numbers):
1 Unus
2 Duo
3 Tres
4 Quattor
5 Quinque
6 Sex
7 Septem
8 Octo
9 Novem
10 Decem
11 Undecim
12 Duodecim
13 Tredecim
14 Quattuordecim
15 Quindecim
16 Sedecim
17 Septendecim
18 Duodeviginti
19 Undeviginti
20 Veginti



LEGIO VI Vic (California)

Ad signa: Fall in. When you hear this command by the Centurio (or the CO for the day), stop whatever you’re doing, pick up you shield and pilum, and proceed to the vexillum and CO, forming a single shoulder-to-shoulder rank facing them.

Silentium: Silence. In other words, no chattering in the ranks.

Mandata captate: Literally, “observe the orders.â€Â

[Robert]

Good grief!! And I thought the Romans just formed a closed rank and marched on the enemy when the trumpet blared! Is there any proof, by the way, of Romans actualy exercising the way we do these days?

Perhaps a way to simplify this is to hone it down to a set of "battle commands" fit for the closed rank fighting of the first and second century. It may not look as slick, but it could work. Sort of "Roman Esperanto".

Would still love some rude Latin marching songs!!

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

(too many ex-soldiers in roman reenacting),

quote] hock: :x (
I have one question for you. Have you ever been in the Army? Well I am and if you have been you will understand how offensive your remark about to many ex-soldiers is! :x x evil: I have been reenacting for 22years long before the Army. When you are train in marching like in the army things become second nature and there fore hard to break. Instead of insulting Veterans why not try and help them. I want to do the best I can when I do an impression. It was very hard for me to learn the drill for my American rev-war impression. I had to learn German and the correct movements. I hope you will understand why your remark was so insulting.
I hope you have a good day.
SGT Bryan Fitch
US Army, Iraq

Hi Byran,

This is just me, I don't think he was trying to insult soldiers or the military, but was rather referring to the point that the large numbers of ex-soldiers in re-enactment means some opt for english commands or modern marching techniques rather than the latin and authentic ones.

The RMRS is also full of ex-servicemen, and I do look like a fool when I march with them as I have no previous military experience whatsoever. But all the commands are in latin. I think it is just like any other part of the re-enactment process, trying to get things right and as authentic as possible, even if it is hard or easier to opt for something servicemen in particular will be used to.

One of the reasons Kirby Hall was such as success is that re-enactment groups from all over could come together and act together, all the commands are in Latin, all that you need to do is stay in step.

But again, that is just me.

[sulla felix]

Would still love some rude Latin marching songs!!

I believe Ade Wink may be able to help you there Robert :wink:

[texascavtrooper]

Yuri,
I agree there are a lot of former soldiers in reenacting but the dosen't mean you need to insult them. If there are groups the have chose to do there commands in English then let them. Or help them learn the right/better way of doing it. As for there being an authentic way sure use latin commands but are they any more right than the modern commands said in latin? Who knows, there is no written record of a Roman drill book to my knowledge. So there is no wrong way of doing it just bettere ways. If I have offended any of you all. I am sorry. I just feel it's wrong to do what was done. There was no need to be insulting.
Bryan

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Yuri,
I agree there are a lot of former soldiers in reenacting but the dosen't mean you need to insult them. If there are groups the have chose to do there commands in English then let them. Or help them learn the right/better way of doing it. As for there being an authentic way sure use latin commands but are they any more right than the modern commands said in latin? Who knows, there is no written record of a Roman drill book to my knowledge. So there is no wrong way of doing it just bettere ways. If I have offended any of you all. I am sorry. I just feel it's wrong to do what was done. There was no need to be insulting.
Bryan

Well, we'll leave it down to Matt to explain himself, or what he meant.

[arklore70]

Byran,
I really do not believe Matt meant any offense. I've met and corresponded with Matt and he is just a flat out good person to know and work with at events. As a vet deployed 6 times to include 4 trips across the big pond, I did not take offense to what he was saying.

I agree with Yuri and Matt in that those of us that have served and are still serving from modern armies tend to perhaps put too much of common military thought into Roman drill. I know I am quite guilty of it.

There is no set of common commands AFAIK, and as far as we know, there may not have been one for the Roman Army at any point. Similiar formations-sure, but how a command was issued for a column right, or column left, let alone the testudo or wedge, who really knows?

Would a set of common commands make things simpler, sure, but who is to say that the commands were any more uniform than the equipment and clothing, that I suspect was similar, but different looking at it from a modern eye.

For public events, the best bet is to practice and rehearse the day before, or in the morning before hand, to ensure that everyone is playing to the same tune/song.

Personally when using latin commands, of any of the above listed, it certainly IMHO adds a sense of real feel to the observing public; that said, I have on occasion also whispered to those marching around in English what the next Latin comand will be, to help ensure we don't look like a bunch of clowns to the public.

On the formation of a national legion, I have stated a lot on my thoughts already, and I would only add that in the United States and Canada at least, the hobby needs to grow a bit more along with having an event or two like Lafe every year or every couple of years where everyone can merge and join in on the fun.

Bryan, I applaud what you are doing overseas. Take 5 yards, continue to keep your head down and your thumb on the safety/selector switch. I look forward to meeting at an event.

Mike

[Caius Fabius]

Just a note: I understand that the LEG VI FFC commands are used by a lot of other groups, LEG II AVG at Lafe, COH II and COH III Italica, and most of the groups in the south east USA. Only one or two SE USA groups do not use those commands, for whatever reason, but they do try and learn them for the events in South Carolina, Arkansas and Georgia, as far as I am aware.

We have been doing "command" discussions since the 1980's. SIGH
Maybe we need to break off to a new thread for this, and perhaps we could include Dr Junklemann's commands as well, which are probably the basis for many of the later groups' lists.

[Hibernicus]

The LEGIO IX HISPANA Command Set has been simplified and focuses less on parade and more on battlefield needs

Some explanations included, edited for space considerations
Some pronounciations also included

.........

Ad signum - "to the standard" = fall in!
ahs See nya

Signum sequimini follow the standard
SEE nya se QUI mi nee
- Often used to bring the troop to a particular
location quickly.

Ad agminem- form a column
ad AG mi na

Procedite - Forward march.
pro KAY dih tay

State - Halt or Stop
STA tay

Ad gladium / Ad dextram - to the right
pronounced: ad GLA ja / ad DEX tra

Ad scutum / Ad sinistram - to the left
ash SHOO ta / ahs sin ISS tra

E gladio/ E dextra - from the right
eh GLA jo / eh DEX tra

E scuto/ E sinistra - from the left
eh SHOO toe / eh si NISS tra

Clina (+ direction) - face

Dirige frontem - dress your ranks: sometimes followed by a direction
DEE rih ge FRON ta

Ad Aciem - battle order
ad A ci ya
Shields held in front, edges touching, weapon at the ready

Parate- prepare for it, pay attention, get ready

Expectate - Wait for it... Prepare to receive a charge

Celeriter - Quickly
kay LE ri ter
Celerius - More quickly
kay LE ri us

Tarde - slowly
TAR day
Tardius - more slowly
TAR jus

Passus - a pace or 2 steps.
Usually given with a number of steps and a direction.
-- Ex. Parate cedere duo passus ad scutum. = Prepare
to move 2 steps to the left.

-- Ex. Parate procedere passibus. = Prepare to move
by steps. This command is used to move the centuria forward
one step at a time.

Passus numerate
- count the cadence.
..."Oon, doo, tray, cut
... "Sin, dex, sin, dex"

Clinate - Face.
Given with a direction or a location:
...Clinate ad signum
...Clinate ad gladium

Transvertite - About face.
trans VER ti tay

Animadvertite - Soldiers, come to attention

Laxate - at ease

Dimitto - Dismissed.
Troops are dismissed to go about their other duties.

Rotate - wheel
Rotate ad dextram!
= Wheel to the left!

Discedite! Cardo e sinistram!
= Reverse wheel from the right!

Recedite - Fall back
ray KAY dee tay

Oblique ad dextram/sinistram procedite -
Advance obliquely to the right/left

Clamate!
Klah MAH tay!
-Shout the war cry.
...Our warcry is "Rom' invicta!" (ROHmin WIK ta)

Scuta tollite
SHOO ta TOL lee tay
- Scuta up! Shieldmen stand up!

Scuta demitite
SHOO ta demee tee tay
- Scuta up! Shieldmen stand up

Tacet' omnes!
ta KAY TOM nayss
- Silence. Silence in the ranks! (This command is a
severe scolding to veteran troops, calling into
question their very professionalism. Only centuriones
and optiones are ever heard. For the rank and file
"Rom' invicta!" just before impact is the only time
for vocalic expression.)

Impellate!
Eem pel LAH tay
- Push (The two shield walls have met. The first rank
concentrates more on advancing by determined crab
walk, while the succeeding ranks jab
opportunistically.)

Invadite!
In WAH di tay
-Close to contact
-This command is used to send the centuria up against
an enemy line.

Acies densate!
AH kee eys DAYN sah tay
- Close ranks! Ranks tighten up,
- can be used after a pila volley.

Vos servate!
WOH ser WAH tay
- Keep your position. Stand your ground.
- Sometimes translated: we took this ground, were told to hold and are not falling back!

Ad testudinum!
at tes TOO dih nem
- Form testudo
- un, du, tray

Tela!
TAY lah
-Missiles! Rear ranks raise scuta to absorb incoming
missiles

Pila infigite!
PEE la iy FEE gi tay
-Plant your pila . Plant the pila into the ground,
point up. NEVER point down

Pila deponite!
PEE la day POH ni te
- Lay down your pila flat on the ground.

Pila tollite!
PEE la TOHL li tay
- Pick up your pila.

Gladia stringite! (Vaginae vacuae)
GLAH di ya STREE ngi tay
- Draw swords

Gladia recondite!
GLAH di ya re KOHN di tay
- Sheath swords

Pugia stringite!
POO gee ya STREE ngi tay
- Draw pugios!

Pugia recondite!
POO gee ya reh KOHN di tay
- Sheath pugios!


THROWING PILUM

Parate pila iacere
Acies apertite!
Pila iacite!

Prepare open order.
OPEN!
Prepare to throw pila
Throw pila


But, it isn't as simple as that. This one of the most
complicated movements we execute--three phases:

1. Parate pila iacere.
Prepare to throw pila .
The soldier gets his body and pilum in
position to throw. The body is rotated so that the
left shoudler is more towards the front. The pilum is
rotated forward from the carry position, the metal
shaft comes to rest on the top of the scutum, soldier
takes a quick moment to adjust his grip. He also
adjusts his foot placement, assuming a braced stance,
right foot back, feet a bit more than shoulder width
apart, scutum to the front, braced and stationary.)

2 Acies Apertite!
Odd numbered ranks stand in place. Even number ranks
take one step to the right.
Now all soldiers are in a checkerboard pattern

3. Pila iacite!
All soldiers throw simultaneously

OR..

3. Per acies.. Pila iacete Prima! (Front rank throws)
Secunda!(Second rank throws.)
Tertia! (Third rank throws),
.. etc

[rusty myers]

While we have changed it a bit and gone to ad gladium/ad scuta for facing movements (on the vote of several units, we dropped the formal left and right in favor of this... Simpler and easier for them to remember with helmet head) this command set actually came from a former LEG XI or LEG I (We did so many events together I cannot remember which he was with) member from several years ago who did the majority of the Latin translation, with some LEG XX adaptions. Just to give credit where due... I think it was Restitivs, though it has come to be called the LEG VI FFC Command set, others had a lot of input, Including Leg I, XI, VI, V, III G (before they disappearred), and heck, we may have even swiped a few of LEG IX's back when we were doing it. I prefer to call it the ISPA/Loseus Command set.

I actually see far more similarities than differences amoung the US units, except I know the Leg XIIII command set is totally different, and LEG XX is simpler. Some tenses, a few words here and there. Simpler is fine for 10-20 soldiers, but one day we will be moving centuries, so we had to expand.

Several units tried to organize a national command set a few years ago, never got off the ground, so we said bump it, we'll do it ourselves.

As for stepping off on the left foot, it can be traced to Medieval times, and perhaps much earlier, but having been to events where someone wanted to step off on the right foot and seeing the cluster gaggle that a move unnatural to anyone who has marched (military/band/etc). I find the resulting screaming of "Step off on the right" more FARBE than just stepping off left foot first. While I am happy to modify and change commands, this one is to me a no brainer! We as a group look better stepping off left foot.

So if we can cooperate.... it will work. Now to get started, what shape should the table be for the talks...

[Magnus]

(too many ex-soldiers in roman reenacting),

quote] hock: :x (
I have one question for you. Have you ever been in the Army? Well I am and if you have been you will understand how offensive your remark about to many ex-soldiers is! :x x evil: I have been reenacting for 22years long before the Army. When you are train in marching like in the army things become second nature and there fore hard to break. Instead of insulting Veterans why not try and help them. I want to do the best I can when I do an impression. It was very hard for me to learn the drill for my American rev-war impression. I had to learn German and the correct movements. I hope you will understand why your remark was so insulting.
I hope you have a good day.
SGT Bryan Fitch
US Army, Iraq

Bryan...Canadian Forces; Lincoln and Welland Reg't, 1995 - 2000. Infantry/Recce. So yes, I've been in the military. I understand all too well the function of muscle memory and drilling, and old habits dying hard.

And yes, you've taken my remark completely out of context and taken offense to something you've misunderstood. My point was that with the combined military experiences of reenactors, modern military-isms tend to creep into their movements and point of views. For some of those "isms" there is simply no proof and no requirement for them.

I actually took an equal amount of offense at the implication that I would insult soldiers current or former. I have a best friend shipping off to Afganistan end of August. I'd rather disembowel myself than disrespect our boys. But, it was a misunderstanding so no worries.

As for commands, I'm an avid fan of the ones by Maurice. Reading the Strategikon I don't see the need to re-vamp anything. But that's just me...and of course everyone has their own idea. 8)

One point that Rusty mentioned in regards to stepping off on the same foot. Even in modern armies drill commands relying on movement starting on one foot goes out the window in a combat setting. Legionaries in full gear aren't mashed together in a column, so hitting the guy's foot in front of you isn't an issue. So long as the movements are done within a second of each other you can avoid collisions.

Even if it's traceable to medieval eras, that doesn't mean it's a holdover from antiquity.

I'm hoping to demonstrate my points at one of my group's camp outs this year, and show that drill and combat movements don't require what we're comfortable with visually when we think of modern military drill.

One small point guys....can you link all those commands to one page instead of posting a massive list in the threads here? John, that thing is massive...lol.

[Hibernicus]

When the enemy presses the centuria becomes compressed. Being on the same foot to counter push is best. Keeps the men together. Men in front tend not to step apart or step out if they step together.

Stepping apart creates gappage in the ranks. A good enemy will exploit those small openings, especially an enemy who's fighting without strong command and control, with lots of "hero" combatants.

Also, if men are on the same foot, distances for thrusting remain uniform. It makes it easier to toss pila.

It's also disconcerting for an opponent to see a wall of shields advancing in step like a single minded entity.

It also helps the men stay aware of each other.

[M. Demetrius]

Of course, you know that's the primary mindset behind those of us who advocate marching IN step. I've walked long distances with folks, and it sort of becomes a trail mindlessness to walk in step. With something going on like a song, a chant, a count, or whatever, the miles go by with less drudge.

And whether it's ever proven to be "Historically Correct Roman", it sure makes it easier to do things like wheels, column right, etc., when everyone is on the same foot beginning the turn. I personally think it looks better. I would always advocate same foot start (left being the most sensible for reasons already stated) and marching in step, advancing in step, throwing pila in step, etc., ad infinitum.

And that's my opinion, and I like it.

[jkaler48]

"One small point guys....can you link all those commands to one page instead of posting a massive list in the threads here? John, that thing is massive...lol."
I had posted the file in the files section of Roman army group but there were
some people having problems opening the text format.
Here is the link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanArmy/files/
I will be adding version 5 of the file soon! All the Roman command sets
I find will be included and then a consolidated set created.

[Magnus]

When the enemy presses the centuria becomes compressed. Being on the same foot to counter push is best. Keeps the men together. Men in front tend not to step apart or step out if they step together.

Stepping apart creates gappage in the ranks. A good enemy will exploit those small openings, especially an enemy who's fighting without strong command and control, with lots of "hero" combatants.

Also, if men are on the same foot, distances for thrusting remain uniform. It makes it easier to toss pila.

It's also disconcerting for an opponent to see a wall of shields advancing in step like a single minded entity.

It also helps the men stay aware of each other.

But Sean, as I mentioned during combat conditions this tendency to stay in step goes out the window. When being engaged directly, the last thing I'm thinking about (even in formation) is which foot I'm moving off from. I hear the word of command and I execute the movement under duress.

Stepping off on a different foot makes little difference...if a person is out in terms of distance to the next man it takes a half step more or less and they are back in place. It's an easy gap to fill...gaps that you speak of could only be achieved by punching actual holes in the lines.

I'm not saying as Dave pointed out that a body of troops couldn't somehow instinctively keep cadence and the same pace. This probably occurs in combat as well in some circumstances (some bodily movements are naturally done in a certain way), however my point is that it isn't a necessity when executing turns, or testudo, or throwing javelins, etc.

I would also argue that a shield wall, regardless of who is and isn't in step is just as visually uncomfortable. I would imagine the focus isn't exactly going to be on the soldier's feet. 8)