Augst Ridge Helm and crests

[John Conyard]

Bishop and Coulston state this helm had three axial slots on it's ridge, presumably for the attachment of a crest. I've seen reconstructions with two slots. Does anybody have a plan or picture clearly showing these slots, their position and size? I have photos of the helm, but they don't show the top of the ridge.

I'm also interested in ideas for attaching the crest. Does anybody have pictures of the reconstruction from the museum in Mainz? A recent reconstruction suggested the continued use of the 1st century crest box holder. Really? Has anybody tried the spherical round front "spacers" seen on the Roman Virgil?

Thank you in advance,

[Peroni]

Hi John,

Didn't Paul Elliott do a reconstruction with a feathered crest box?

The only pictures of the Augst helmet I have are black and white and do not have the clarity required to see whether or not there are slots in the ridge. I do have a photo of the intercisa I which appears to have slits cut into the ridge.

Aitor posted some great drawings on the Deepeeka Inter IV thread on how the 'vane' type crest was fitted.

[John Conyard]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I'm familiar with Paul's 2006 reconstruction. He used one slot and a metal sheet attached to the crest box. The sheet had two cuts in it to allow it to fold left, right and left inside the helmet.

I'm intrigued with the idea that a crest holder could fit into the ridge itself.

I'll look at the Depeeka thread later today. But I thought the metal vane was rivetted to the ridge. Still I haven't looked at the intercisa IV for a long while.

Cheers

John

[Caballo]

Interesting question.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... io188v.jpg

The crests in the Vergilus Romanus look to me as similar in shape to Adrian's new Witcham helmet crest, but (possibly!) made with feathers?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... C00519.jpg


Which brings us back to John's question on the Augst ridge and the practicalities of attaching such a crest to a Late Roman helmet.....

[Peroni]

I have a simple but practical answer.. It would be quite possible to make a channel in the crest block to accommodate the ridge of the helmet and with some metal fittings to locate into the slots of the ridge - make it quite secure. The crest block would then slide into the slots.

The crest block would actually rest on the flanges of the ridge (not in my drawing though!!) :wink:

Something like this....

[John Conyard]

I like to easy to understand pictures. I have prepared bronze bars to fit a crest box and slide into the ridge. Very much like the end of a 1st century crest box holder.

But I all so like the idea of a raised crest sitting on some sort of crest holder. Get drawing Adrian!

[Robert Vermaat]

Thy this discussion about the Intercisa IV, it also has information about the slits on the Gutmann Intercisa and the Augst helmets, such as Aitor Iriarte's drawings:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 77&start=0

Here's another about the Augst helmet:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... gst+helmet

[John Conyard]

Aitor's reconstruction of the metal crest fitting on the Intercisa IV was excellent. The second thread emphasised the correct method of fitting a crest which lies flush to the ridge of the helmet. The second thread had a photo of the Augst helm taken from above which just about shows the third 24mm slot in the ridge, allowing a full length crest box to be fitted. Excellent. Thank you.

But I'm still interested in how to fit a raised crest. The Roman Virgil shows a raised crest nicely in the scene where Iris comes to Turnus. The crest may be flush with the helm at the rear, but is lifted up at the front. Or it may be lifted above the helm for it's full length. The idea was reconstructed twice by Angus McBride in the Osprey Men at Arms "Romano-Byzantine Armies 4th-9th Centuries". However he was carefull not to show the rear of the crest in both cases.

My first inclination was to liken the spacer at the front of the crest on the Virgil to the long rivets that hold the raised second ridge of the Berkasovo 1 helm. But there is only one visible spacer on the Virgil helm, while there are innumerable rivets on the Berkasovo 1. Any ideas must enable the crest to be dismounted from the helmet. A 1st century style crest holder was recently suggested in an illustration which is a neat solution, but surely out of context. But some form of crest holder would need to be inserted into the ridge.

Sorry to come back on this one. I have the photo of the Augst helmet showing the slots, and I know how to fit the crest box flush with the ridge. But I'm still after the possible answers in terms of fitting a raised crest.

[Robert Vermaat]

The Roman Virgil shows a raised crest nicely in the scene where Iris comes to Turnus. The crest may be flush with the helm at the rear, but is lifted up at the front. Or it may be lifted above the helm for it's full length. The idea was reconstructed twice by Angus McBride in the Osprey Men at Arms "Romano-Byzantine Armies 4th-9th Centuries". However he was carefull not to show the rear of the crest in both cases.

This one:

[John Conyard]

Correct!

[John Conyard]

I think I'll go with a "L" shaped crest holder which will slide into the existing slots found in the ridge of helms such as the Augst, and which can be inserted straight into the crest box. The crest box itself seems highly stylised at the front. I prefer feathers to horsehair ,and these will need to be arranged into the same form as the crests in the Roman Virgil, the Intercisa IV and various other contemporary illustrations.

Such a system would allow the raised crest to be easily dismounted and replaced with a crest that lies flush to the helmet.