Olympic Games (interesting, actually)

[SigniferOne]

Mankind may have evolved in Africa but civilisation (erroneously divided into Eastern and Western) evolved naturally in the Middle East. This artificial dividing line, that was created during the age of Colonialism, is an element of Edward Said's Orientalism. A theory whose framework is reinforced by the media and depicts one side, the West, as progressive, democratic, ethical and liberated as opposed to its "Other," the East, which is always depicted as regressive, autocratic, undemocratic and despotic.

There is a problem in following Said's lead, because he was not a Classicist or even a historian, and many of his ideas are flatly false. The depiction of East as "Other" began not by ignorant Europeans in the 18th and 19th century Colonialism, but by the very Greeks themselves who said, "Look we are democratic, while those other Persians are not". And in truth, they weren't wrong. Thus it was thought in the West ever since. Let's see, you said that the East was unfairly described as "regressive, autocratic, undemocratic, and despotic". Can you actually successfully dispute any of those terms?

I also realise that we can spend countless hours arguing about what element of civilisation was miraculously created in Greece as opposed to evolved in the Middle East. However the majority of the elements such as Religion, Maths, Science, Time, Literature, Athletics, that you refer to as "Western civilisation" naturally evolved in the land between two rivers that is today known as Iraq.

I also realize that you're not of my persuasion, and so these arguments may fall on deaf ears (which is also why I would've hoped that Jona clarified which side he stood on on this issue); but Greek pagan religion didn't evolve in Iraq; Greek pseudo-science started from Chaldaeans, but Greek science didn't; Math is a complicated issue since even the Egyptians had to know math to build the Pyramids, but I find no compelling evidence to link Archimedes to Babylon, since there never was an Archimedes equivalent in Babylon; I find it difficult to see how the drama of Aeschylus or History of Herodotus came from Babylon, perhaps you could enlighten me?; and Athletics we've intensely discussed in this thread. The simple fact of physically competing with someone else wasn't invented in Greece (nor was it invented in Babylon, and is most likely a primordial institution). But the ideals that we associate with athletics -- the chiseled glistening athletes, the training regimen, the egalitarian nature -- come directly from the Greeks. Babylonian culture was not egalitarian, and they never worshiped the human body (they never sculpted the Discobolus). If Babylonians/Persians ever depicted perfect human form, we could discuss the issue, but since they didn't, I find it hard to find ground to.