Lanyards on Gladii?

[sulla felix]

Perusing the excellent Miks work last night I spotted these and wondered if they were attachment points for either lanyards or some kind of wrist strap to prevent total loss of the gladius if it slips out of one's hand during the heat of battle? They look like they are loops connected to the pommel nut/finial but I could be mistaken. Thoughts anyone?

[Wander]

Only that I learned in the SCA that a lanyard on your sword can be a lifesaver. Seems logical to me. That's not proof, though.

[Conal]

Check out some of the Gladiatorial images available on the web. They clearly show a strap attachment.

It hangs down though so may have been used to hang the sword when not in use.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

There is a Hispaniensis repro available, that has a fitting on the pommel that could accommodate a strap.....

[Hibernicus]

Pros and cons for a lanyard.. phew! I bet that there are a lot!

I prefer no lanyard based on my simulated combat experiences.
Why? Because we now take at least three weapons with us for different uses (pilum, gladius and pugio) and a lanyard makes a quick change over near to impossible.

[Magnus]

Yeah, I was just thinking that....what if your gladius blade breaks? Now you've got a useless weapon stuck to your wrist...it would make a weapon change extremely hard.

[Wander]

Sean: This is not meant to be an argument, just an informational question. I haven't fought in simulated Roman engagements, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

My impression is this: You advance to pilum range, throw your pilum, draw your gladius and close with the enemy. Assuming you're lucky, you kill him. My impression was that the gladius was the primary close combat weapon, and the pugio would only be a last resort.

And that's my point: Wouldn't you go to that last resort only if you dropped or otherwise lost your gladius? Wouldn't the lanyard prevent that? Under what circumstances would you sheath your gladius because you prefer to use the pugio? I simply can't imagine wanting to make that change in the press of battle.

EDITED: OK, I just saw Magnus' point about the gladius breaking. I can see that it would be inconvenient if that happened. Any idea how many actual broken gladii have been dug up? Did this happen much? To my mind, dropping it would still be much more of a worry.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yeah, I was just thinking that....what if your gladius blade breaks? Now you've got a useless weapon stuck to your wrist...it would make a weapon change extremely hard.

But you now have a handy mace....

You are probably right, so it might be feasible for a centurion who is not "chukin' spears"...but rank and file not so useful?

[john m roberts]

The loops seen dangling from gladiatorial sword pommels may have been for hanging them from pegs in the armories, since they are never depicted as sheathed and may in fact never have even had sheaths. However, the recently recovered very large Republican-era gladiatorial relief clearly shows the loop around the gladiators' wrists. However, these cords seem to be attached below the pommel rather than to a ring atop it.

[Caballo]

From Bishop & Coulston, Roman Military Equipment 2
" The sword from Rheingonheim had a silver plated wooden handle and the rivet originally possesed a "small ring from a bronze chain", recalling a gladiator relief from Rome where the sword is suspended from the gladiator's wrist by a cord or chain."

And here is a link to the picture of the sword- on the left

http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p239 ... fig039.png

[Hibernicus]

In one v one combat a lanyard is a plus.

Wayne: good questions!

In simulated combat we use pilum to cause the enemy disarray:
- by throwing in unison just before hand to hand combat (sometimes the 1st and/or 2nd rank do not toss, only the subsequent ranks. Its harder for an opponent to see the 3rd rank back getting ready to throw.
- to stop or slow a full run charge by littering the ground among his running troops with obstacles (you ought to see them fall all over themselves stumbling with a jumble of pilum in their ranks and at the their feet.)
- sometimes the command is to toss over his front ranks and into his reserve where the long thrusting spears and or archers are arrayed.
- we never throw at his front rank. They are too well covered and can sometimes see it coming.
- we often throw obliquely. Combatants are often fixated on what's in front of them. Toss at his right side, his non-shield side
- sometimes the 3rd rank can use pilum as thrusting spears, stabbing over the shoulders of their fellow soldiers. A single hand thrust to the face does not have to be very forceful to disable an opponent. By thrusting at an opponents face he often raises his shield or focuses his attetion to protecting his face his guard is now high and he has to worry about attacks from several angles at the same time... hopefully he doesn't get to worry for too long!

When in contact the 1st and 2nd rank are using gladius, teams working one opponent or individual soldiers seeking targets of opportunity or creating difficulty for an opponent.. for example if the 1st rank are attacking low (groin, thigh, lower abdomen) the opponent has to lower his shield to protect his lower area and risks a high line attack or visa versa. If several men are working as a team they call the attack ie: each man knows what his attack area is and the execute it.

If the press becomes so tight that a gladius is too long you drop it and draw a pugio. There's no time to sheath it or the space to do so! You can't attack with a pugio if a gladius is hanging off of your wrist.

[sulla felix]

Pros and cons for a lanyard.. phew! I bet that there are a lot!

I prefer no lanyard based on my simulated combat experiences.
Why? Because we now take at least three weapons with us for different uses (pilum, gladius and pugio) and a lanyard makes a quick change over near to impossible.

If it is a simple wrist strap you could drop the broken gladius in about a second flat. Your simulated combat is not really much use in an analysis because there is no blood! After plunging your gladius into a few Barbarians there would be blood everywhere which is very slippery stuff? You would have thrown you pila quite some distance before engaging hand to hand surely?

I am more interested in the actual evidence and an interpretation of that evidence.

[Magnus]

Wayne: I don't think many damaged gladii blades have been recovered...if only after the battle they'd be collected and fixed or re-forged.

Barry: How can you drop it quickly, but still have it function with it's intended purpose? I'm just recalling when I used to play raquetball. The strap was fairly loose but it wasn't easy to shrug off...

[sulla felix]

Barry: How can you drop it quickly, but still have it function with it's intended purpose? I'm just recalling when I used to play raquetball. The strap was fairly loose but it wasn't easy to shrug off...

If you make the wrist loop large and then wrap it a couple of times around your wrist it still works and is easy to get rid of when required.

IMHO blades are more likely to bend rather than break or snap given the quality of the metal used. I believe this is attested in Ancient sources somewhere too - I'll see if I can find it. Remember you are supposed to be stabbing and thrusting not wielding it like Errol Flynn :lol:

[Hibernicus]

I had one experience with blood and a bone grip gladius.

The blood from my cut made the grip sticky.

From my experience with lanyards it is not easy to shuck a dangling weapon when you want to, only when you don't want to.