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I hate to burst anyone's reality bubble, but "education" or "rehabilitation" will not change human characteristics. The majority of society seems to put faith in such things, but the truth is they don't work. Not for the vast majority. But this belief allows the negative elements of society to thrive, because there are no real consequences to their actions, until an extreme situation is produced.
People need to come to terms with the fact that there are a LOT of bad people on this planet. The only cure for them is life long incarceration or death. Because they will not change, no matter how much you may wish it.
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Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité
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Well, let me remember what her majesty's justice did with William kidd ? His body was hung in an iron cage and exposed on the Thames. But it was in 1701...
The way he stupidely attacked the HMS Quedah merchant with a french flag and then became a pirate is delightful...
Let's never forget that the difference between a pirate and a corsair is thin, just like between resistant/terrorist (the french have really well known this one 60 years ago and later in Algeria from the other side) , hero/bad guy, etc.
Great bandits always had an aura of sympathy (till a certain measure of course). A raw treatment has to be assumed for decades later. A stupid pirate shot when attempting to assault a ship stay a moron. But a poor somalian fisherman, "reputedly forced" to become a "courageous" pirate who escape to all the western navies is a perfect hollywoodian hero for all the country...
bye
Greg Reynaud (the ferret)
![[Image: 955d308995.jpg]](http://www.ciberupload.com/uploads/955d308995.jpg) Britto-roman milites, 500 AD
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I can see your point, but why don't these "poor" pirates raid their own countries ships and failing that, if they are armed----dispose of their leader as the pirates of the past did?
Dante
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No, not just as Americans, but as law-abiding citizens of ANY civilized nation. Uphold the laws of the lands we live in. Prosecute offenders, fight wars to win. Remember, it's the pirates that have declared war on all of us, not the other way around.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
Saepe veritas est dura.
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There are far more ships off the coast of Somalia than the pirates can ever hope to hijack. France and the US have served notice that they will no longer tolerate attacks on their ships. That leaves hundreds of ships from countries that will deal. The pirates just need to be more selective of the ships they attack.
Pecunia non olet
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Mary Beard is mentioning a "Pompey" approach to the pirates, part force and part incentives.
Quote:By the early 60s BC, pirates had become such a menace to Mediterranean shipping that in 67 Rome gave Pompey a "special command" and vast resources to try to get rid of them. It was great opportunity for this general 'on the make' to demonstrate his military genius. So he divided the sea into separate operational regions and, using loyal subordinate officers, he swept the pirates off the waters in just a few months.
But Pompey was smart enough to realise that, unless they were given some other form of livelihood, they would soon be back. (This is basically the Afghanistan problem: if they don't make their money out of the poppy crop how ARE they going to survive.) So in a wonderful, early 'resettlement of offenders' initiative he offered the pirates small-holdings near the coast, where they could make an honest living for themselves.
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Yeah, well it probably is what is needed, except these people may not be as easy to deal with as they were in Pompays day. Seems they are perhaps just extending the warlord mentality out to sea, and the land-lubber versions were not
open to too much negotiation.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
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Byron Angel
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A simple question How do the pirates get on board the ships that are so tall:?: I am missing something.
Jeffery Wyss
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Quote:A simple question How do the pirates get on board the ships that are so tall:?: I am missing something.
They aim RPG's at the crew and demand a ladder?
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Quote:Goffredo:32nrtwpe Wrote:A simple question How do the pirates get on board the ships that are so tall:?: I am missing something.
They aim RPG's at the crew and demand a ladder?
Absolutely ! But now with helicopters or fighters ready to shoot them at sea a few minutes after the first "mayday" they're changing their tactics...
First they aim at sailers and prefer a good old dollar awarded ransom to the selling of diverse containers or oil in Somalia.
Secondly, they follow ships by night (yes they are night vision equiped sometimes) and throw a hook. Risky but efficient !
We didn't say that but I know that french navy control fishermen's boats at sea and he told me that he saw a few times the guys throwing all weapons at sea before being controlled. The question is how is it that weapons are so cheap for them ? Who's pulling the strings behind in Somalia ? Are they still exploiting old stocks from the cold war ? Some journalists in France says to watch after China... but I'm still not convinced.
Bye
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Greg Reynaud (the ferret)
Britto-roman milites, 500 AD
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The world is absolutely awash in weaponry left over from the Cold War proxy conflicts. Pirates wouldn't hesitate to deep-six their AKs. After all, weapons are the only things that distinguish pirates from fishermen. Plenty more where they came from, cheap. Of course, it also makes sense to dispose of hostages the same way.
Pecunia non olet
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All please note: this thread has been in 'modern-politics' territory from its inception. Because the discussion was proceeding amicably, we've let it continue so far, but enough is enough. Either bring up an original point of view not mentioned before, steer it back to Ancient history (Pliny's mention about archers on board ships in these seas anyone) or let the thread die.
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Roman pottery has been found on Suqutra the Yemin island in this area. I wonder if the Romans also had pirate problems affecting trade in this area?
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Quote:Roman pottery has been found on Suqutra the Yemin island in this area. I wonder if the Romans also had pirate problems affecting trade in this area?
The question before could be, were the romans directly in charge of trade in this zone ?
One found some romano-byzantine gems reused in the Mekong Delta but romans probably never maintained trade posts over there. So you have a mediterranean zone directly ruled by romans, they can act against piracy, OK. But now simply imagine that piracy in the indian ocean block some silk boats too far in the east (as an example). What can they do ? They simply have an inflation.
However, an archaeologist told me of an hypothesis about the mysterious arabic soldiers of the VIth cent. muslim conquest. The heads or "executives" of this army should have been... coptic romans settled or refugees on the other side of the red sea after the persian invasion of Egypt (I wait impatiently more informations about this hypothesis...). Does it mean than regular roman communities were settled there ? (And along the Nile, how far were they trading ?)
Bye
Greg Reynaud (the ferret)
Britto-roman milites, 500 AD
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