Political correctness encouraging piracy

[Hibernicus]

Were they sure that the boats were pirates? Would you want to end you career as the Captain Who Sank A Fishing Boat With All Hands?

... helped end the US Presidential aspirations of one fellow a few years ago

Hib.

[P. Clodius Secundus]

Pirates even tried to attack an American naval supply ship late Sept . The ship fired warning shots at them. The pirates sped away.

More political correctness at work. Warning Shots?

I fire warning shots too, but they always seem to end up center-of-mass :wink:

[Magnus]

They jumped in front of my bullets....

[jkaler48]

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[Timotheus]

Society and governments have changed a lot in the last 100 years. Governments may talk a good game but they are more uncaring about their citizens then they are now.

I remember reading about good old Walker down in Central America. He tried to lead revolts in multiple countries and at least one time when caught the US Ambassador wrapped him in an American flag and told the soldiers about to shoot him that the flag would be given to the US President.


Needless to say Walker was not shot at that particular time.

Today there is no chance the USA would threaten war even with a minor country over the murder of an American citizen. Back then there would be no doubt that if we had been defied and Walker shot in front of the Ambassador that marines would have landed.


Yep, thats progress.

[Praefectusclassis]

Byron is completely correct and it was no different in the Roman era. With peace established throughout the Med, piracy went into decline. Of course there was the threat of Roman military response if piracy broke out, but no, unlike the popular idea, the Roman fleets did not patrol the seas, nor did they escort the grain fleets. It simply wasn't needed anymore.

[Magnus]

You mean there was a time in human history that military forces weren't ever needed? 8)

[Praefectusclassis]

Ahhh, the bliss of the Pax Romana! :lol: Nope, just saying that they were less effective at fixing piracy than repairing potential pirates' socio-economical problems. It sounds very ladieda, but is clearly true for the ancient world. The opposite as well: it is when Mithridates starts to mess up the eastern Med in the first decades of the 1st C BC that piracy really becomes a problem there. It's the destabilizing effect of warfare and displacement of refugees and people who might otherwise have found a more legitimate way of life.

[Tarbicus]

http://www.marinelink.com/Story/Piracy+ ... 12730.html
"The risks of providing weapon training to ships crew are considerable. It may appear an obvious point, but allowing anyone to take up arms without instruction (or providing incorrect instruction) will at best render the whole exercise ineffective when it comes to the moment of truth, and in the worst case scenario, result in a fatality. Firing over the bow of a ship is one thing, but once on board, drawing and effectively using weapons inside the close confines of a vessel is the last thing anyone wants to see, and only those skilled in this kind of conflict should ever be called upon in such tense situations.
Training in the use of firearms is a lengthy and serious business. All of our armed Security Officers undergo weapons specific training, handling, maintenance and Rules of Engagement at one of our training facilities, and specific refresher training is conducted (where possible) on board vessels.
While it would be inappropriate here to reveal the actual rules of engagement when using weapons, there are strict rules that apply. These may be written in support of a Ship's Security Plan, agreed with the client (and ship's master), and any armed Security Officers must be well rehearsed in all aspects of these regulations.
Furthermore, although we have qualified instructors on vessels we generally do not provide security training to the crew as it can lead to numerous issues particularly with client's insurers and P&I clubs who are very reluctant to extend cover to crew. We have to carry substantial additional insurance cover ourselves for the deployment and use of firearms.
The issues of deploying arms on board do not stop with insurance. There are strict rules to adhere to for the Master, who retains ultimate sovereignty over weapons on a vessel. Also, it must be remembered that some ports around the world do not permit vessels to berth with weapons on board - even if locked away in bonded store, and there are serious legal implications for those not obeying these regulations.
The International Maritime Organization actually discourages the use of weapons and the attack on the cruise ship Seabourn Spirit demonstrated that aggressors can be dealt with through sound security procedures and countermeasures rather than weapons."

I don't understand why this issue is thought to be influenced by political correctness? Or must all seamen first be fully trained armed guards, in which case there'd probably be more loss of cargo through ships sinking than piracy, and loss of life at sea through accidental discharge of firearms?

A peek at alternatives to lethal force:
http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/anti- ... y-somalia/

And of course, there are usually two sides to every story:
FISHING FOR THE MOTIVES THAT LIE BEHIND PIRACY which is a copy of the original article in the Lloyds List News Portal

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That is the very issue I am alluding to Jim. I wasn't sure how far we could go though.

[caiusbeerquitius]

I don't understand why this issue is thought to be influenced by political correctness?

Well, based on a sound half-knowledge it really may seem as a possible reason. People that do not know a lot about a certain topic tend to connect their world-view with a oversimplified version of explanation to problems they are not able to - or too uninformed to - understand. Psychologically not really news, that.

Or, explained in an easier-to-understand-way:
1. Know that there is an all-round-evil
2. Certain problem recognised
3. Make all-round-evil responsible for problem

Teleological problem solution, that is. It is the easiest way for the human mind to solve problems which it encounters in social life or in the individuum-society conflict. As such, it is not too bad, everybody does it now and then.
Only if it leads to a crusade-mentality, where people actually start to BELIEVE in these things and start proselytizing them, the "facts" should become quite questionable, and should, indeed, be questioned by the social environment.

[Marius_Ursus]

John you ought to hear the stories from US Marines, US Sailors or Coast Guard about patrols off of Somalia et al.. boom! ....can't get them all.. but prizes like tanks, RPGs and small arms all on one ship is too tempting!

Anyone remember Pres G Ford and the "pirates" off of Cambodia?
Boom!

or Pres Thomas Jefferson and the Shores of Tripoli and the so called Barbary Pirates... the US's FIRST war with a Muslim nation?

In what year was that?



Hib [/i]

Funny you should mention the Barbary pirates. Just last night while watching the news, I turned to crissie and said, "I don't understand why we're pussyfooting around with them. What they ought to do is what the US Marines did to the Barbary pirates! BOOM! No more Barbary pirates!" LOL :lol:

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

In light of recent events, perhaps this thread is relevant again.

The best part is that those who needed to come out of this unharmed, did so, despite the ordeal.

Ralph Izard
[size=85:tyivqhd0](Ralph Izard the somethingith, was a midshipman who helped burned the Philidelphia in Tripoli. Irrelivant, but... )[/size]

[jkaler48]

The Captain and crew of the American Merchant ship deserve medals and I urge US Citizens to write their members of Congress to recommend
the Congress recognize their bravery with an appropriate medal.

[Jona Lendering]

The Captain and crew of the American Merchant ship deserve medals

Yes, the thought crossed my mind too.