The Rise of Civilization

[Jona Lendering]

OK. We are not animals. But what makes us human beings? What is the root of our civilization? A German scientist named Josef Reichholf has finally found the answer and published it in his book Warum die Menschen Sesshaft Wurden. The answer is: beer.

It has always been accepted that humankind started as gatherers, more or less like several primates, slowly learning to use tools (again, like several primates) and becoming hunters. Reichholf now proves that almost immediately after the last Ice Age, the switch to agriculture -and the root of all civilization- was not caused by the fact that this is a more productive mode of production (this was already questioned in the 1970s); the real reason why human beings became sedentary farmers, is because they had discovered how to make beer of barley and mushrooms.

An interview with Reichholf is here. Somehow the Greeks were right when they attributed the creation of civilization ot the god of drunkenness, Dionysus.

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

That makes me an uncivilised animal. :lol:

[M. Demetrius]

Give it time, Sandrvs, civilization will become more appealing to you...
:lol:

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

A hymn from the mist of time summing the totality of humanity's rise to civilization:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPLutvB_ ... re=related


Izard, R.

[Jona Lendering]

A hymn from the mist of time summing the totality of humanity's rise to civilization:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPLutvB_ ... re=related

Which reminds me of a great Monty Python song.

[Sean Manning]

You mean we non-drinkers are uncivilized? I have a sudden urge to paint myself with woad or go sack Rome.

I wish I could read German! One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol. The customary drug over here tended to be tobacco or chocolate.

[Jona Lendering]

One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol.

Good point!

[Carlton Bach]

You mean we non-drinkers are uncivilized? I have a sudden urge to paint myself with woad or go sack Rome.

I wish I could read German! One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol. The customary drug over here tended to be tobacco or chocolate.

One theory is that agriculture was developed in the Andes to grow bottle gourds for carrying drinks.

[Narukami]

Very interesting...

I remember reading somewhere (and now I can not recall where :oops: ) that the Romans considered barbarians those who drank their wine 'neat.'

And speaking of wine, just about time for the canon to sound retreat -- time for a glass of wine.

Cheers!

:wink:

Narukami

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

... that the Romans considered barbarians those who drank their wine 'neat.'

And speaking of wine, -- time for a glass of wine.

Narukami

Barbarian

Ralph

[Narukami]

I would be guilty as charged, except...

I did add an ice cube to the glass.

Now some connoisseurs of the grape would consider that sacrilege, but clearly not my good Roman friends.

Hail Caesar!

:wink:

Narukami

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Somehow the Greeks were right when they attributed the creation of civilization ot the god of drunkenness, Dionysus.

It's funny how, somehow, the Greeks are always right! :wink: :lol:

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

The answer is: beer.

LOL ... I always thought it was the reason for the decline of civilisation.

One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol.

Good point!

As I understand Reichholf from the interview (and I haven't read the book) he says that "[...] Alkohol oder Rauchdrogen waren die Mittel.", meaning alcohol or drugs that could be smoked (tabacco).
Seems Reichholf believes in the hedonist nature of man. :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

You mean we non-drinkers are uncivilized? I have a sudden urge to paint myself with woad or go sack Rome.

I wish I could read German! One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol. The customary drug over here tended to be tobacco or chocolate.

They didn't need alchohol, they had a wide variety of halucinogenic and narcotic substances to play with..... :lol:

[Sean Manning]

Thanks for the translation, Tiberius!

You mean we non-drinkers are uncivilized? I have a sudden urge to paint myself with woad or go sack Rome.

I wish I could read German! One limit to that theory is that it doesn't explain why various New World peoples invented agriculture but not alcohol. The customary drug over here tended to be tobacco or chocolate.

They didn't need alchohol, they had a wide variety of halucinogenic and narcotic substances to play with..... :lol:

But do those drugs require the sort of heavy equipment that brewing does? (You need big pots or barrels or other containers, plus a heavy weight of whatever crop you are fermenting, which nomads can't carry around). Pre-agricultural peoples often encourage certain plants to grow, and come by at the right time of year to harvest them.