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I've read that the thumb in the fist gesture was to let the crowd decide the fate of the defeated. I couldn't swear to that, though, and it might be some Hollywood fantasy, even though it makes good sense....
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
Saepe veritas est dura.
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Junkelmann shows another picture in his book where a similar gesture like that one the Nimes tables is to be seen, this time it is a tubicen stretching out two fingers pointing at the defeated gladiator and pressing the thumb against the hand. It a relief fragment from Rome dating to the end of the 1st century BC and is today at the Glyptothek in Munich.
Besides turning the thumb (pollice verso) or pressing the thumb (pollice premere) there should have been two distinctive movements with the arm. At pollice verso where the thumb could represent the sword the movement could be against the chest or throat therefore indicating to kill the loser.
It was for the editor muneris to decide if the defeated gladiator should be killed or not but very often he relied on the opinion of the majority of the audience and therefore they needed to make two different easily to distinct gestures. Therefore the thumb gesture as a representation of a sword should be accompanied e.g. by either waving the arm or holding it still. But the scholars (Junkelmann and others he cites in his book) do not know for sure.
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Hello there, gladiators. I'm a new member devoted to gladiatorial contests since I visited for the first time the Italica's amphitheatre, near Seville, where I come from. I just want to say that the controversial about "pollicem premere" referring to the Cavillargues medallion, wich clearly says "stantes missi" (released standing) is completely artificial for the argument that the rod held by the figure in the middle is "a forced interpretation" because it's held by the person on the right.
The figure on the right, possibly the summa rudis, is clearly announcing something, not just holding a rod. He is facing the crowd with a theatrical gesture and though this is only an impression, the fact is that he can not hold anything with the back side of his hand. Illussionists do it with cards, but it seems quite improbable with such a stuff!!
I've sent two attachments to reinforce my assertion.[/img]
Forgive my poor english; I'm from Hispalis (Italica) where two emperors (Trajanus & Adrianus were born).
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Interesting relief.
I didnt notice thsi so far.
It seems to be a Pontus fight.
Though the Pontus is shown quite small and abstract the Secutor is clearly advancing form a ramp and stepping onto the platform that the Retiarius is defending.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
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Yeah, I also think it was a pontus fight. The pontus is shortly represented because an obvious lack of space (too many things in jus one medallion). By the way, I'm seriously interested in watching gladiatorial reenactments at Italica's amphitheatre. It was the third largest in the Roman Empire (25,000 spectators) and it's well preserved, compared to others. There go four pics.
Although it is August and here in southern Spain that means there´s nobody enough representative to talk with, I will work to arrange the possibility to perform gladiators fights and roman army reenactments at Italica town.
Salute, Olaf.
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Quote:Junkelmann shows another picture in his book where a similar gesture like that one the Nimes tables is to be seen, this time it is a tubicen stretching out two fingers pointing at the defeated gladiator and pressing the thumb against the hand. It a relief fragment from Rome dating to the end of the 1st century BC and is today at the Glyptothek in Munich.
Besides turning the thumb (pollice verso) or pressing the thumb (pollice premere) there should have been two distinctive movements with the arm. At pollice verso where the thumb could represent the sword the movement could be against the chest or throat therefore indicating to kill the loser.
It was for the editor muneris to decide if the defeated gladiator should be killed or not but very often he relied on the opinion of the majority of the audience and therefore they needed to make two different easily to distinct gestures. Therefore the thumb gesture as a representation of a sword should be accompanied e.g. by either waving the arm or holding it still. But the scholars (Junkelmann and others he cites in his book) do not know for sure.
What's happened to illustration?
Conal Moran
Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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@
Conal
I guess the illustration got lost in one of the forum upgrades.
@
Hispanicus
Now thats another beautifully preserved amphitheatre that I will have to visit sometime in the future.
Keep me updated if you get lucky with your plan to haost an event at your town, I am sure the other gladiators of my group would love to visit southern spain also.
Olaf Küppers - Histotainment, Event und Promotion - Germany
