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Anyone know where this is from (Lydia?,Lycia?, Caria?), or even if it is authentic?
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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It's from a tumulus in Kelainai in Anatolia. Around modern city of Afyon, Turkey. Yes, it's authentic and unique. I posted some photos of it in this topic http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... c&start=40
Regards.
Laran aka Sait
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I've found many pictures of the actual paintings of the main portion of the tomb by now, but I've yet to see an actual photograph of this portion. Where does this picture come from?
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Quote:It's from a tumulus in Kelainai in Anatolia. Around modern city of Afyon, Turkey. Yes, it's authentic and unique. I posted some photos of it in this topic
Ah yes: the capital of Phrygia. The home, for many a year, of Antigonus Monophthalmus.
One thing is certain: none of those figures are the old One Eyed in his septuagenarian years. The pottery isn't big enough.
Paralus|Michael Park
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
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Quote:
One thing is certain: none of those figures are the old One Eyed in his septuagenarian years. The pottery isn't big enough.
If I'm not mistaken, it's dated to 6th c. BC. According to the article, pictures from which I posted, it's the only burial from Persian period in the area. In the same article it is said that the grave of Alcibiades should be somewhere in the same valley.
Laran aka Sait
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Yes: said in jest. Where can one locate the article?
Paralus|Michael Park
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους
Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!
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Quote:Where can one locate the article?
It's from a Turkish popular science magazine ArkeoAtlas, Issue 6, 2007. The article is by two of the experts working on restoration of these finds, Latife Summerer and Alexander von Kienlin.
The site of the issue http://www.kesfetmekicinbak.com/atlasla ... las/04614/
Laran aka Sait
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That spiral pattern looks so Lakedaimonian.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Quote:Paralus:5f9kbkxz Wrote:Where can one locate the article?
It's from a Turkish popular science magazine ArkeoAtlas, Issue 6, 2007. The article is by two of the experts working on restoration of these finds, Latife Summerer and Alexander von Kienlin.
The site of the issue http://www.kesfetmekicinbak.com/atlasla ... las/04614/
The ArkeoAtlas article is good, but unfortunately a bit limited, and with rather small images. The scenes have now been fully published in the article "Picturing Persian Victory: The Painted Battle Scene on the Munich Wood" by Lâtife Summerer in Ancient Civilizations from Scythia to Siberia, Volume 13, Numbers 1-2, 2007, pp. 3-30.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Quote:The ArkeoAtlas article is good, but unfortunately a bit limited, and with rather small images. The scenes have now been fully published in the article "Picturing Persian Victory: The Painted Battle Scene on the Munich Wood" by Lâtife Summerer in Ancient Civilizations from Scythia to Siberia, Volume 13, Numbers 1-2, 2007, pp. 3-30.
Thanks.
Quote:That spiral pattern looks so Lakedaimonian.
In the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations (Ankara) there are Phrygian terracota panels with warriors having a similar pattern on their shields.
Laran aka Sait
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Doesn't this remind you of the mycenean warrior vase?
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
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Paul B. wrote:
Quote:That spiral pattern looks so Lakedaimonian
..while 'spiral' pattern shields are known in a Spartan/Lakedaemonian context these types of design appear on the icnography from right across the Greek World, and thus cannot be considered a particularly Spartan design.
(Another myth which does not stand up under even cursory examination. I'm afraid )
Even the votive red/black/white spiral terrracotta miniature shield that some consider as 'Spartan Royal' ( on no grounds whatever that I can see, other than that another spiral shield of different design is held by a Hoplite with transverse crest) is almost exctly duplicated on Corinthian pottery (IIRC), in a distinctly non-spartan context........
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(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
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Although the fact that the terracotta was found in Sparta suggests that is had to be a Spartan(though not necessatilly royal) emblem, I agree with Paul,the spiral patterns appears too often in other non-spartan pottery that one can't suggest every time we see one,it might be showing Lakedaimonians.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
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Quote:..while 'spiral' pattern shields are known in a Spartan/Lakedaemonian context these types of design appear on the icnography from right across the Greek World, and thus cannot be considered a particularly Spartan design.
I, in fact, meant to imply the reverse. There is a theory about Lykian migration into Crete and the Peloponnese in the bronze age. There is a strong correlation of certain DNA haplotypes between Crete and Peloponnesia and Asia Minor- recently and wrongly attributed to Phoenecian influence in Crete and southern Greece.
Of course a spiral is such a simple pattern that convergence between two groups is likely as well.
Paul M. Bardunias
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Quote:Laran:113vsrcs Wrote:Paralus:113vsrcs Wrote:Where can one locate the article?
It's from a Turkish popular science magazine ArkeoAtlas, Issue 6, 2007. The article is by two of the experts working on restoration of these finds, Latife Summerer and Alexander von Kienlin.
The site of the issue http://www.kesfetmekicinbak.com/atlasla ... las/04614/
The ArkeoAtlas article is good, but unfortunately a bit limited, and with rather small images. The scenes have now been fully published in the article "Picturing Persian Victory: The Painted Battle Scene on the Munich Wood" by Lâtife Summerer in Ancient Civilizations from Scythia to Siberia, Volume 13, Numbers 1-2, 2007, pp. 3-30. Thanks, Ruben. The version of the "Ancient Civilizations From Scythia to Siberia" article from EBISCOHost seems to be missing the pictures- where did you get your copy?
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I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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