Roman battlefield found deep inside Germany

[noxia]

Hi,
there was a report about the battlefield in german TV yesterday.

It still can be seen under the following link:
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/hauptnavi...Roms-Rache

Compared to the known film, there are quite some new informations.

regards

[Simplex]

Update.
The latest finds from the location (albeit from a diverse finding-spot) will be presented
at a press-conference on January, 11th, 2012, 12.00 am , at the Niedersächsischen Landesamt für Denkmalpflege, Scharnhorststraße 1, 30175 Hannover, Germany
http://www.denkmalpflege.niedersachsen.d..._psmand=45
and
http://www.denkmalpflege.niedersachsen.d...load/63383
The most interesting part is a dolabra (carpenter's axe) engraved with "LEG IIII".
Merry reasoning. :mrgreen:

Yes, and a happy 2012 to all of you.

Greez

Simplex

[jkaler48]

A google translation of the first link text:
Archaeologists find evidence for the involvement of the fourth legion at the battle of Harzhorn

Invitation to Press Conference on 11 January 2012, 12.00 clock, in the Lower Saxony State Office for Historical Monuments, Scharnhorst Strasse 1, 30175 Hannover.

Only very rarely find artifacts archaeologists, allowing a precise combination of their findings with the non-written historical record. The studies on the newly discovered three years ago, Roman-Germanic battlefield of the third Century AD on Harzhorn (Northeim county) now have such a surprising discovery brought to light. For although the battle field at the horn resin is relatively well-dated coins found, it has not been possible to connect to it beyond doubt with a historically traditional event.

One year ago, another focus of the fighting in the area of ​​the resin horn was detected, including one released the full Roman spear, called a "pilum" fittings from the yoke of oxen and two iron axes. These are the relics of a violent struggle of man against man, but only in the restoration of the finds were uncovered on the larger of the two axes, a so-called "dolabra", a hammered inscription. So can now be named for the first time a Roman unit that was at this in the written sources hardly traditional campaign involved far into the interior of Germania: It is clearly on the "dolabra" in large letters "LEG IIII", ie the fourth legion to . recognize The inscription is still underway, but to decipher in the following parts are difficult. A team of specialists have succeeded in recent months to provide a full explanation of the mysterious inscription that important new information on the Battle of the resin horn delivers.

In the presence of Lower Saxony's Minister for Science and Culture, Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka, reports the North buckets Kreisarchäologin Dr. Petra Lönne about the discovery of new finds. Prof. Dr. Günther Bauer of the University of Osnabrueck Moss explains the inscriptions and places them in historical context. Other scientists from the resin horn project are available for talks and discuss issues, methods and results. Besides the "dolabra" more exciting discoveries are presented in the original.

We invite you to an exciting journey through time in the year 235 after Christ.


Contact persons
Josephine doll
Lower Saxony State Office of Historic Monuments
Scharnhorststraße 1
30175 Hannover
Tel: 05 11 / 9 25-52 55
josefine.puppe @ nld.niedersachsen.de

Dr. Petra Lönne
Northeim county
Tel 0 55 51/70 81 56
[email protected]

[Robert Vermaat]

The inscription is still underway, but to decipher in the following parts are difficult.

The inscription continues, but it is difficult to decipher the following parts.

[Simplex]

.... summary of the first more in-depth publication on the dolabra (RGZM ; e.g. in english) :
http://web.rgzm.de/1309.0.html

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

Update.
The press-conferences is over, now pressnotes slash in fast -- but not with too much substance, I'm afraid.
Links here (with pics of course) :
http://www.hna.de/nachrichten/landkreis-...58819.html
This note has been translated further down. (English text is inclined)
http://www.nordsee-zeitung.de/nachrichte...89636.html
same content:
http://www.bild.de/regional/hannover/han....bild.html
Clic on da pic (>Dolabra)
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen...index.html
More:
http://www.ndr.de/regional/niedersachsen...rn129.html
>>>>>>>>>
Römer und Germanen kämpften am Kahlberg
Romans and Germans fought at the Kahlberg
Dögerode/Oldenrode.
Das ist eine Sensation: Römer und Germanen kämpften im dritten Jahrhundert nach Christus nicht nur am Harzhorn im heutigen Landkreis Northeim gegeneinander.
It’s a sensation: In the third century Romans and Germanics were not only fighting at the Harzhorn, ---sited in what is Northeim county today.
Weitere spektakuläre Funde wurden an einer neuen Stelle in drei Kilometern Entfernung gemacht.
Further spectacular finds have been made at another place, about three kilometres away.
Nach bislang nicht bestätigten Informationen soll die weitere Schlacht am Kahlberg bei Dögerode und Kalefeld stattgefunden haben.
According to informations not having been confirmed hitherto , this other battle should have taken place at the Kahlberg near Dögerode and Kalefeld.
Zwei professionelle Techniker des Landkreises Northeim hatten an der neuen Stelle bereits Ende 2010 Funde gemacht.
Two excavation technicians had already been making finds at this spot as early as by the end of 2010.
Sie wurden gestern bei einer Pressekonferenz in Hannover präsentiert.
These have been presented yesterday on occasion of a press-conference at Hannover.
Offiziell wollte Kreisarchäologin Dr. Petra Lönne den genauen Ort des neuen Kampfplatzes bislang nicht bekannt geben. Die betroffenen Grundstückseigentümer sind dagegen.
County archeologist Dr. Petra Lönne would not give more specific informations about the situation of this new battle-theater because the landowners concerned would not consent.
Außerdem hat man in der Kreisverwaltung Angst vor illegalen Fundsuchern.
Another cause for this (information policy) was the county officials’ anxiousness
of illegal excavations.
Absolutes Prunkstück der neuen Funde ist eine zwei Kilogramm schwere, vollständig erhaltene Pionieraxt aus Eisen, eine Kombination aus Axt und Hacke.
The absolute prime piece among the new finds is a 2kg well-preserved iron pioneers’ axe – actually a combination of axe and chopper.
Beim Restaurieren dieser so genannten Dolabra kam auf der Breitseite eine Inschrift zu Tage, die erstmalig einen genauen Hinweis auf das am Harzhorn kämpfende römische Heer gibt.
Upon restoration of this so-called Doolabra an inscription showed up on its broadside, which gave a more precise hint on the army that fought at the Harzhorn.
In großen Lettern ist auf der Axt der Eigentümer vermerkt, die „LEG IIII“, die vierte Legion.
In grand letters the possessor has been marked: „Leg IIII“ – the fourth Legion.
Einem Expertenteam ist es gelungen, die geheimnisvolle Inschrift vollständig zu deuten.
An expert team succeeded in decyphering this enigmatic inscription in full.
Wichtiger Beweis.
Important proof.
Mit den Neufunden ist nach Ansicht der Experten der Beweis erbracht, dass das Harzhorn selbst nur ein Ausschnitt aus einer weiträumigen militärischen Operation der Römer ist.
According to the experts the new finds do (finally ?) prove, that the Harzhorn as such is only a section of a roman military operation on a grand scale.
Die Beteiligung von Einheiten der vierten Legion ist ein zusätzlicher Hinweis darauf, dass es sich bei den Funden am Harzhorn um die Spuren eines Feldzuges von Kaiser Maximinus Thrax aus dem Jahr 235 nach Christus handeln muss. (bsc)
The participation of parts of the fourth Legion are an additional hint tot he fact that the traces at the Harzhorn are parts of a campaign by Maximinus Thrax in 235 AD.
Another source (HNA) mentions the fact, that the LEGIIII most certainly was stationed at Singidunum. (>Belgrad).
(Rem.: Would have been called LEGIIII F M = Flavia Maximiana, then ?!)
HNA-online 11.01.2012; 15:42 Uhr

Still waiting for more to come.

Greez

Simplex

[jho]

Thank you for the update and the link.

If you scroll through the pictures there is a very nice Niederbieber brow guard and apparently two well preserved socketed pila. Given the large area over which these finds appear to be spread there is hope that much more is to be found.

[john roberts]

Is a single inscription such as that on the dolabra considered sufficient to identify the presence of the IIIIth Legion? In WWII soldiers were always trading and swapping gear including insignia and distinctive bits of kit such as the famous V42 dagger of the US/Canadian First Special Service Force. My father came home from the Far East with a bunch of Free French and Foreign Legion badges he'd collected in various bars where Allied soldiers hung out. Maybe somebody won that dolabra in a crap game.

[Simplex]

Hi John,
... since this dolabra came up amongst other parts from roman times -- in an area where more roman finds were made > "found in a field" ( farming area),I think we can call this "found in situ".
German newspaper "Die Welt" just put more news online - a bit more substantial than the others I had linked before. On top of the other informations the names of the two chief excavators that made this find were given: Michael Brangs and Thorsten Schwarz.
Both were also the first (official)ones to excavate here in 2008. They are portrayed in the movie about the Harzhorn digs I reviewed elsewhere in this forum.
http://www.welt.de/kultur/article1381034...ation.html
(With a roundup of the pics available.)
Taking that into account I'm not under the expression they could be incompetent or be inclined to braggery. (O.K. , we all know -- "when Hollywood steps in" > :roll: , yes ?! :mrgreen: )
I think we can trust them . ;-)
The "Welt" also goes on to mention "a multiple of 2000 finds already made".
That said -- back to further informations:
This press-note goes on to relate to a roman gravestone/"kenotaph"(?) found in Speyer/Germany, mentioning a certain Aurelius Vitalis, member of the LEGIIII Flavia as "agens expeditione Germaniae, hitherto attributed to a participation in one of Caracalla's expeditions. (* > "Römer in Rheinland-Pfalz" 1990 S.117)
(That one of 213 AD -- aka as "a case of Emperor Posing" :wink: !)
The newspaper then goes on to state that most parts of Germania Magna meant no "terra incognita" to the romans as e.g. Ptolemaios showed in his geographic papers -- they give a short hint to the book on "new findings about the Ptolemaic papers" we discusses elsewhere here.
Another newsline from the Göttinger Tageblatt just popped up:
http://www.goettinger-tageblatt.de/Nachr...m-Harzhorn
getting more specific on the full text of the dolabra-inscription, probably readable as:
LEGIIII F S A (= Flaviana Severiana Alexandriana) referring to Maximinus Thrax predecessor Severus Alexander.
Ahhh, yes ---- there will be a "Landesausstellung/state exhibition" about the Harzhorn
in 2013 -- at Braunschweig.
http://www.landesmuseum-bs.de/
(No informations given here, yet -- referring just for the impatient ones, here :mrgreen: )
Waiting on still more information.

Greez

Siggi

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi John,
... since this dolabra came up amongst other parts from roman times -- in an area where more roman finds were made > "found in a field" ( farming area),I think we can call this "found in situ".

Hi Siggi,
I don't think John is in doubt about the find, but about the actual unit of the last owner. The dolabra could have been issued to a member of LegIIII alright, but the hapless last owner need not have been from that unit.
Myself, I doubt that a dolabra was an item worthy enough to pass from one unit to another - my guess is that this item, a mere tool, did not likely pass from one legion to another. But then, I wasn't there either . Maybe the owner was attached to it.

[Simplex]

O.K. ,
sorry John
I think I did not quite get you, then, my excuses for that.
The possibility that the owner or the dolabra may have gotten "detached" is definitely not off-hand, --- as is, BTW, the affair with Aurelius Vitalis' gravestone/kenotaph, which had customarily been attributed to a participation in Caracallas earlier expedition.
(I could find no reference yet whether LEGIIII F [ and F or A ?] did participate in Caracalla's "german shopping spree" aka "Germanica Expeditio" in 213 -- Andreas Hensens'
summary on Epoch 2-2010 of his older "full monty"-paper is not specific on what troops
he took with him, then :roll: )
So, back to the main subject again:
Out of an "outrageously" high number of press-notes (well,--- ahmm , -- at least compared to other “archeological events” in Germany including Olfen --and except Kalkriese, of course)
two caught my eyes:
The first one:
In short, amongst informations that other notes gave already, ..
1) the new finding-spot is near Dögerode.
2)Pics of Mr. Brangs and Mr. Schwarz – the “Finders”.
Link here:
http://www.hna.de/nachrichten/landkreis-...60223.html
The next one, amongst the usual “commonplaces” , is a little bit more specific on the finds there:
Besides the Dolabra (wrong notes under the first pic ! This is no spear, folks, --- it’s the dolabra! :mrgreen: )
a roman helmet, some lance-tips, one of them germanic have “popped up” yet.
Link here:
http://www.abendblatt.de/region/article2...manen.html
Still waiting for more informations to show up
Yours
Simplex

P.S.
BTW: Prof. Dr. Moosbauer seems to be quite certain the inscription read:
"LEG(ionis)IIII (Flaviae) S(everianae) A(lexandrianae)"
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/ro...03764.html

[Simplex]

....and a little bit of "Haallywoode" for everyone, because every picture ...... :mrgreen:
http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/ni...g9441.html
and, earlier ......
http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/da...ht797.html

Greez

Simplex

[caiusbeerquitius]

harzhorn-roemer-kamen-aus-heutigem-serbien-
German "Bild" (if you want to call this a "newspaper") quotes G. Moosbauer saying "We had Serbs here in Germany", referring to the legionary camp of Legio IIII at Singidunum. If this quote is correct, well... it would show a very weird concept of history...

[Simplex]

Hi Christian,
.... that thingy with "the Serbs" spread around like wildfire ( I'm not sure whether the "Bild" first mentioned that, rather "au contraire", I think ,--- at least I tried to steer clear of that-- obviously to no avail. :roll: )
But yes "beating about the bushes" seems to have become part of " da biz".
I havent made up my my as whether to despise this or not ---maybe they "were young and needed the money". :mrgreen:

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

Update:
Dolabra close-up.
http://www.archaeologieportal.niedersach...elles.html

Greez

Simplex