Cold Weather

[Arminius Primus]

Ave,

Very Cold and Snowy here. I think the troops need more than a paenulla and leg wraps to survive in this type weather. A nice warm permanent garrison would be best.

Seems like Europe has entered a new ice age! Given that I have mobility problems in this type of weather, what did the Roman Army do? I know that the campaign season was typically in the summer, but I am sure that along the Limes duty continued to include skirmishes and pursuits. irrespective of the season.

Is there a record of any combat in winter conditions, with ice, snow and severe cold ?

Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus aka Al

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

Here in North Germany it is not as cold as at your place but nonetheless very cold when riding the bicycle to work and back home. If it stays below freezing point constantly for two weeks the River Alster might freeze again so people could skate on it. The last time this happened was in January 1997.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I recall a battle in the later period where I think either Goths or Sarmatians were fought on a frozen river, possible the Danube, but cannot remember the details. :?
Hopefully some one more up to date on these things may be of more help.

[Jona Lendering]

I recall a battle in the later period where I think either Goths or Sarmatians were fought on a frozen river, possible the Danube, but cannot remember the details. :?

Vandals, Burgundians, Alans, and Suebians crossing the Rhine in the night of 31 Dec / 1 Jan. 406/407; references here - [url:3lscsxm9]http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/BURLAT/6*.html#note36[/url]

The classical text about ancient winter operations is of course Xenophon's Anabasis.

[Graham Sumner]

I recall a battle in the later period where I think either Goths or Sarmatians were fought on a frozen river, possible the Danube, but cannot remember the details.
Hopefully some one more up to date on these things may be of more help.

You are right Byron and I think there was also something about the Romans having to put their shields down on the ice, placing one foot on them so they could stay upright and fight. Unfortunately like you I can not remember exactly which passage it comes from, possibly something in the SHA? If I find it again I will post it.

Graham.

[Epictetus]

I know Plutarch was impressed with the resistance to cold that some barbarians showed Marius.

The barbarians, however, came on with such insolence and contempt of their enemies, that to show their strength and courage, rather than out of any necessity, they went naked in the showers of snow, and through the ice and deep snow climbed up to the tops of the hills, and from thence, placing their broad shields under their bodies, let themselves slide from the precipices along their vast slippery descents.

Plutarch, Caius Marius

This passage always cracked me up. I can just picture wild unkempt barbarians sledding in the snow on their shields while the Romans were wondering what they had gotten themselves into. :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

First time I have seen that one!
Same image....just bloody naked! :lol:

[Arminius Primus]

Ave,

Now that's more like it. Riding your shield naked down a snowy mountainside. Anyone up for reenacting that portion of winter warfare? Someone could start a whole new unique New Years Tradition.

Sounds like there are recorded instances out there, if we have that , then are there any references to special preparations and equipment for the cold.

The combat on the frozen river sounds interesting,...would the caligae hobnails be enough to give you any traction on ice.

Was that river combat an ambush affair,.... not sure why anyone would pick a frozen river for combat.....other than its flat.

Just to make life interesting , 4.9 quake today. Just enough to get your attention.

Regards from a very cold and snowy Balkans,

Arminius Primus aka Al

[Epictetus]

Here we go. I thought I remembered what Graham mentioned, and after a word search of Dio I found it.

The Iazyges were conquered by the Romans on land at this time and later on the river. By this I do not mean that any naval battle took place, but that the Romans pursued them as they fled over the frozen Ister and fought there as on dry land. The Iazyges, perceiving that they were being pursued, awaited their opponents' onset, expecting to overcome them easily, as the others were not accustomed to the ice. Accordingly, some of the barbarians dashed straight at them, while others rode round to attack their flanks, as their horses had been trained to run safely even over a surface of this kind. The Romans upon observing this were not alarmed, but formed in a compact body, facing all their foes at once, and most of them laid down their shields and rested one foot upon them, so that they might not slip so much; and thus they received the enemy's charge. Some seized the bridles, others the shields and spearshafts of their assailants, and drew the men toward them; and thus, becoming involved in close conflict, they knocked down both men and horses, since the barbarians by reason of their momentum could no longer keep from slipping. The Romans, to be sure, also slipped; but in case one of them fell on his back, he would drag his adversary down on top of him and then with his feet would hurl him backwards, as in a wrestling match, and so would get on top of him; and if one fell on his face, he would actually seize with his teeth his antagonist, who had fallen first. For the barbarians, being unused to a contest of this sort, and having lighter equipment, were unable to resist, so that but few escaped out of a large force.

Cassius Dio, 72.12

I'm not finding anything about equipment, though.

[Robert Vermaat]

I recall a battle in the later period where I think either Goths or Sarmatians were fought on a frozen river, possible the Danube, but cannot remember the details. :?

Vandals, Burgundians, Alans, and Suebians crossing the Rhine in the night of 31 Dec / 1 Jan. 406/407;

The references seem never to mention a frozen river crossing. I've been on this wild goose chase before. My current theory is that the
culprit is Gibbon.M y guess is that he, knowing the date (December 31, or another `last day of the year'), filled in the conditions of the river himself,
without one source actually saying so.

These are the sources for the 406/7 crosssing of the Rhine:

Hieronymus, Epistle 123.16:But what am I doing? Whilst I talk about the cargo, the vessel itself
founders. He that letteth is taken out of the way, and yet we do not
realize that Antichrist is near. Yes, Antichrist is near whom the Lord
Jesus Christ "shall consume with the spirit of his mouth." "Woe unto
them," he cries, "that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days." Now these things are both the fruits of marriage.
I shall now say a few words of our present miseries. A few of us have
hitherto survived them, but this is due not to anything we have done
ourselves but to the mercy of the Lord. Savage tribes in countless
numbers have overrun all parts of Gaul. The whole country between the
Alps and the Pyrenees, between the Rhine and the Ocean, has been laid
waste by hordes of Quadi, Vandals, Sarmatians, Alans, Gepids, Herules,
Saxons, Burgundians, Allemanni and--alas! for the commonweal!--even
Pannonians. For "Assur also is joined with them." The once noble city of
Moguntiacum has been captured and destroyed. In its church many
thousands have been massacred. The people of Vangium after standing a
long siege have been extirpated. The powerful city of Rheims, the
Ambiani, the Altrebatae, the Belgians on the skirts of the world,
Tournay, Spires, and Strasburg have fallen to Germany: while the
provinces of Aquitaine and of the Nine Nations, of Lyons and of Narbonne
are with the exception of a few cities one universal scene of
desolation. And those which the sword spares without, famine ravages
within. I cannot speak without tears of Toulouse which has been kept
from failing hitherto by the merits of its reverend bishop Exuperius.
Even the Spains are on the brink of ruin and tremble daily as they
recall the invasion of the Cymry; and, while others suffer misfortunes
once in actual fact, they suffer them continually in
anticipation.

Zosimus, Historia nova VI.3.1:
Some years before, Arcadius being in his sixth consulate, and Probus was
his colleague, the Vandals, uniting with the Alani and the Suevi,
crossed in these places, and plundered the countries beyond the Alps.

Salvian, De gubernatione Dei: 7,12:
We are judged by the ever-present judgment of God, and thus a most
slothful race has been aroused to accomplish our destruction and shame.
They go from place to place, from city to city, and destroy everything.
First they poured out from their native land into Germany, which lay
nearest them, a country called barbarous, but under Roman control. After
its destruction, the country of the Belgae burst into flames, then the
rich estates of the luxurious Aquitanians, and after these the whole
body of the Gallic provinces. This ruin spread gradually, however, in
order that while one part was being visited with destruction, another
might be reformed by its example. But when has there been any amendment
among us, or what part of the Roman world, whatever its affliction, is
corrected by it? As we read: "They are all gone out of the way, they are
altogether become useless." And in like manner the prophet cried out to
the Lord, saying: "Thou hast stricken them but they have not grieved;
thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction;
they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.

One source has a scant note about the date being on the last day of the
year:

Prosper Tiro, Epitoma chronicon 13a 1230:
Vandali et Halani traiecto Rheno ingressi II k. Ian.

Other frozen river crossings:
In 366, the Alamanni crossed the frozen Rhine on January 2.
In 378, the Lentienses (also Alamanni) cross the frozen Rhine and cause
Gratian to be too late for the battle of Adrianople.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Epictitus, that passage looks familiar. The details was in the fighting, not the equipment, for sure. Pity that.

[Epictetus]

My current theory is that the culprit is Gibbon. My guess is that he, knowing the date (December 31, or another `last day of the year'), filled in the conditions of the river himself, without one source actually saying so.

Don't be too hard on poor old Gibbon. He doesn't state it as a fact - he clearly says that he is guessing the situation at the time. (Emphasis mine.)

The victorious confederates pursued their march; and on the last day of the year, in a season when the waters of the Rhine were most probably frozen, they entered, without opposition, the defenceless provinces of Gaul.

Gibbon, Ch. XXX

I think Gibbon is still remarkably accurate, even after 200 years of scholarship. He's not perfect by any means, though.

[Robert Vermaat]

Don't be too hard on poor old Gibbon. He doesn't state it as a fact - he clearly says that he is guessing the situation at the time.

You're right of course. Nevertheless he's clearly guiding his readers towards a conclusion to which he himself has obviously come - that the invaders managed to invade unopposed because the river was frozen. It's too bad that later writers (historians) changed his guess into a fact, and have been writing it as such ever since.

Not surprising, this seems to have been the case with a lot of historical studies in the 18th and 19th centuries. Sadly, it's often taken centuries to unravel the conclusions that were made back then and followed ever since.

[Epictetus]

Gibbon had a rather strange preconception that the climate was much colder during that period. When I looked in the index to try and find the previous quote, I also came across this:

Some ingenious writers have suspected that Europe was much colder formerly than it is at present; and the most ancient descriptions of the climate of Germany tend exceedingly to confirm their theory.

Gibbon, IX

He then goes on to mention how the Rhine and Danube were frequently described as frozen over and how reindeer were in Germany. He noted that in his day the latitude in Canada was colder than the same latitude in Europe and guessed that forest clearing in Europe through the ages was the reason. In the time of the Roman Empire he guessed the climate was similar at the same latitude in both Europe and Canada. (They didn't know about the Gulf Stream then!)

Anyway, I guess if he started with the preconception of a colder climate it was no great leap to surmise that the Rhine was frozen on New Year's Day 407.

[Robert Vermaat]

You mean something like this. A few pictures I shot this morning, temp a minor -9.3 degrees.