Maille During the Time of Darius I

[Lepidina]

I'm looking for a good picture of a Persian suit of mail from the time of Darius I (late 400s BC) - replica, existing, or from another period source (relief, statue, etc.). I know, kinda random but I'm editing an online course and there's a quotation from a contract with the army of Darius I to produce a "suit of mail". The picture accompanying the contract is of a typical medieval coat of mail. I know I should just be happy that the authors wrote "suit of mail" instead of "chainmail" but the history geek in me is cringing at the wrong armor being pictured.

So if anyone can help me out, I'd be grateful. Sadly, the Higgins Armory only goes back to about 1300.

[Kineas]

Lepidina, I'm reltively new to this period but I was privileged to spend a great deal fo time woth T. cuyler Young here in Toronto, who, in addition to being the curator fo the ROM, was also the guy who wrote the "Persia" parts of the Cambridge History, ec, etc. And a hell of a guy--like a real life Indiana Jones.

He did a lot of digs in Iron 1960-1989. As far as I know, all he produced was "scale" mail. The the best of my understand, "chain" mail comes in from the Celtic world in about 200 BC.

Elsewhere on RAT are some excellent pictures of scale armour, original and repro. I addition, i know that somewhere out there is a book on the digs at Duras Europa which had/have some of the best scale armour prserved from classical antiquity, including horse armour.

[Lepidina]

He did a lot of digs in Iron 1960-1989. As far as I know, all he produced was "scale" mail. The the best of my understand, "chain" mail comes in from the Celtic world in about 200 BC.

Elsewhere on RAT are some excellent pictures of scale armour, original and repro. I addition, i know that somewhere out there is a book on the digs at Duras Europa which had/have some of the best scale armour prserved from classical antiquity, including horse armour.

*smacks head* OF COURSE!! I'm such a blonde. (No, really, I am. Down to the roots. :mrgreen: )

Off to go find a public use picture of scale armour. (And if anyone has one of those and wants it to be immortalized in a lesson on contracting, let me know.)

[Paullus Scipio]

Kineas is correct. To the best of our knowledge, 'mail' of iron rings was invented 'somewhere in central Europe' by the culture generally called Celtic ( Strabo says categorically that it was a Celtic invention) c. 300 B.C..........In the following century, it's use spread quite quickly among better off Celtic chiefs and noble warriors, and due to Celtic invasion and conquest of Northern Italy, it was adopted by Etruscans and Romans....though because of cost, it tended to be resatricted to the wealthier warriors ( Polybius describes it's use by Roman conscripts with a wealth assessment of 100,000 Asses/10,000 drachmae)....it also appeared in Hellenistic armies too.

[Kineas]

Anything to help a lesson on contracting.

I believe that this is in the public domain.

[Sean Manning]

I'm looking for a good picture of a Persian suit of mail from the time of Darius I (late 400s BC) - replica, existing, or from another period source (relief, statue, etc.). I know, kinda random but I'm editing an online course and there's a quotation from a contract with the army of Darius I to produce a "suit of mail". The picture accompanying the contract is of a typical medieval coat of mail. I know I should just be happy that the authors wrote "suit of mail" instead of "chainmail" but the history geek in me is cringing at the wrong armor being pictured.

So if anyone can help me out, I'd be grateful. Sadly, the Higgins Armory only goes back to about 1300.

Do they give a source? Two of my interests are Achaemenid warfare and the cost of arms.

[PMBardunias]

I know you are looking for scale, but to me this is the most interesting Persian cavalry armor. Its from Cannakale in Turkey and there are much better images available.

[Sean Manning]

I've found another example of armour with a similar cut, but no rectangular sleeves, on a seal impression dated to the 16th year of King Xerxes at Persepolis (roughly 470 BCE). The excavator described the armour as covered with a lozenge pattern (-> scale armour?) but the photo isn't good enough for me to see them. Unfortunately, nothing below the Persian's waist belt is preserved, so I don't know whether the armour had pterges. The spearman on the seal is on foot and his left hand is grabbing the bowl-shaped shield of his standing enemy, but otherwise the pictures are very similar.

Parenthically, it would be nice to know whether the Canakkale horseman is wearing a skullcap under his hood, or greaves on his shins. Neither is clear in any of the photos I've seen.

[Lepidina]

I know you are looking for scale, but to me this is the most interesting Persian cavalry armor. Its from Cannakale in Turkey and there are much better images available.

Bizarro. What kind of armor is that and why does it have the big collar on the back?

[Lepidina]

Anything to help a lesson on contracting.

I believe that this is in the public domain.

Ooh excellent. Do you have the source? People are picky about copyright violation at work and I'd like to be able to point to the website and say that it is fair use. Thanks!

[PMBardunias]

What kind of armor is that and why does it have the big collar on the back?

The image is of the Altikulac sarcophagus found near Can (shan) is the eastern Troad. I have some larger images, email me if you'd like them.

The high collar is a common feature on later central asian armors- Kushan for example- and presumably defends against missiles. Gorgets for the front are also a common feature in armors meant to defend against arrows. The Greek tube and yoke has a small projection of this kind as well behind the neck.

[Dan Howard]

Ooh excellent. Do you have the source? People are picky about copyright violation at work and I'd like to be able to point to the website and say that it is fair use. Thanks!

The MET reckons that it is Scythian. You should be able to link to a colour version of the above photo on their website. I've talked to a few people who reckon that it is much later than that. Personally I don't know. It seems to be in too good a condition to be as old as initially claimed. It certainly doesn't look like tghe scale armour in Scythian illustrations - most are fashioned in the Greek "linothorax" style.

If it helps I've written a brief essay outlining the differences in terminology and why Victorian texts used the word "mail" to describe all metal armour.
http://www.knightsofveritas.org/materia ... ngmail.pdf

[MeinPanzer]

I've found another example of armour with a similar cut, but no rectangular sleeves, on a seal impression dated to the 16th year of King Xerxes at Persepolis (roughly 470 BCE). The excavator described the armour as covered with a lozenge pattern (-> scale armour?) but the photo isn't good enough for me to see them. Unfortunately, nothing below the Persian's waist belt is preserved, so I don't know whether the armour had pterges. The spearman on the seal is on foot and his left hand is grabbing the bowl-shaped shield of his standing enemy, but otherwise the pictures are very similar.

There's another seal representing another Persian on foot wearing a similar cuirass and facing a hoplite - it can be seen in Duncan Head's "The Achaemenid Persian Army" Fig. 14 b. It shows the full figure of the man, and it's evident that the cuirass ends in a single short row of pteruges. He, like the lozenge-patterned figure, has a high collar which seems to have some sort of sagaris-head protruding from it. How this works is unclear, but the Canakkale figure's cuirass does not have this sort of protuberance.

There are, however, two other Persian seals showing horsemen wearing armour identical to the Canakkale figure. The first is Fig. 24 a of Head's book, which shows a man wearing the same sort of cuirass with the large rectangular shoulder-guards and the high collar covering the back of the neck as well as a flat-topped cap. The other is his Fig. 25 c, which has been poorly reproduced as a figure wearing parapleuridia. While it's not clear whether this guy wears parapleuridia or just baggy trousers, it is abundantly clear that he wears a cuirass like this with a high collar, shoulder-guards, and flat cap

Parenthically, it would be nice to know whether the Canakkale horseman is wearing a skullcap under his hood, or greaves on his shins. Neither is clear in any of the photos I've seen.

What you see of the headgear in that image posted by Paul is about as much detail as there is - he wears some sort of flat-topped cap or helmet reaching down his cheeks, which seems to be similar in form to the headgear of the two figures on foot bearing similar cuirasses described above, though their's are not flat-topped.

As for greaves, yes he does wear them; they are quite clearly modelled over top of his loose trousers.

The high collar is a common feature on later central asian armors- Kushan for example- and presumably defends against missiles. Gorgets for the front are also a common feature in armors meant to defend against arrows. The Greek tube and yoke has a small projection of this kind as well behind the neck.

The high-collared cuirasses worn by Persian figures like these seem to be exaggerated tube-and-yoke cuirasses, and so are separate from the later Central Asian armours with high collars, which almost certainly derive from Chinese styles of armour.

[Sean Manning]

I've found another example of armour with a similar cut, but no rectangular sleeves, on a seal impression dated to the 16th year of King Xerxes at Persepolis (roughly 470 BCE). The excavator described the armour as covered with a lozenge pattern (-> scale armour?) but the photo isn't good enough for me to see them. Unfortunately, nothing below the Persian's waist belt is preserved, so I don't know whether the armour had pterges. The spearman on the seal is on foot and his left hand is grabbing the bowl-shaped shield of his standing enemy, but otherwise the pictures are very similar.

There's another seal representing another Persian on foot wearing a similar cuirass and facing a hoplite - it can be seen in Duncan Head's "The Achaemenid Persian Army" Fig. 14 b. It shows the full figure of the man, and it's evident that the cuirass ends in a single short row of pteruges. He, like the lozenge-patterned figure, has a high collar which seems to have some sort of sagaris-head protruding from it. How this works is unclear, but the Canakkale figure's cuirass does not have this sort of protuberance.

Neither does the infantryman from Persepolis.

I just manged to find a copy of that book for US$150 so I should be able to check that soon. I don't know Duncan should feel proud that his work is selling for CA$3/page, or mad that he can't publish a new edition and get some of this cash flowing his way. Until then, thanks for summarizing this.

There are, however, two other Persian seals showing horsemen wearing armour identical to the Cannakkale figure. The first is Fig. 24 a of Head's book, which shows a man wearing the same sort of cuirass with the large rectangular shoulder-guards and the high collar covering the back of the neck as well as a flat-topped cap. The other is his Fig. 25 c, which has been poorly reproduced as a figure wearing parapleuridia. While it's not clear whether this guy wears parapleuridia or just baggy trousers, it is abundantly clear that he wears a cuirass like this with a high collar, shoulder-guards, and flat cap

Parenthically, it would be nice to know whether the Canakkale horseman is wearing a skullcap under his hood, or greaves on his shins. Neither is clear in any of the photos I've seen.

What you see of the headgear in that image posted by Paul is about as much detail as there is - he wears some sort of flat-topped cap or helmet reaching down his cheeks, which seems to be similar in form to the headgear of the two figures on foot bearing similar cuirasses described above, though their's are not flat-topped.

As for greaves, yes he does wear them; they are quite clearly modelled over top of his loose trousers.

The infantryman from Persepolis is clearly wearing a Median hood/tiara/kyrbasia with his armour. I believe that the Cannakkale horseman is wearing the same. Of course, a skullcap would fit under one of those quite nicely, so they could still be wearing helmets. A flat-topped typology would fit nicely with the artistic evidence but I don't know of any finds.

The high collar is a common feature on later central asian armors- Kushan for example- and presumably defends against missiles. Gorgets for the front are also a common feature in armors meant to defend against arrows. The Greek tube and yoke has a small projection of this kind as well behind the neck.

The high-collared cuirasses worn by Persian figures like these seem to be exaggerated tube-and-yoke cuirasses, and so are separate from the later Central Asian armours with high collars, which almost certainly derive from Chinese styles of armour.

I'm not convinced that this cut of armour derives from the Black Sea/Aegean region tube-and-yoke cuirass. The sleeves and high neckguard are significant differences, and some Assyrian reliefs show what looks like thin pterges. It seems like it could be Central Asian in origin. Its a shame that Persian art almost always shows figures in profile so we can't see the shoulders from the front or back.

The high neckguard would also protect the neck from blows from behind in a chaotic fight.

[MeinPanzer]

Neither does the infantryman from Persepolis.

If you look closely, yes, he actually does.

I just manged to find a copy of that book for US$150 so I should be able to check that soon. I don't know Duncan should feel proud that his work is selling for CA$3/page, or mad that he can't publish a new edition and get some of this cash flowing his way. Until then, thanks for summarizing this.

Oh yeah, and I forgot that there is, of course, also that gem seal which is Fig 32 h in Head's book which shows two Persians fighting two Saka. The two Persians wear cuirasses with the same high collars with sagaris heads emerging from them, though in this case it seems like the top of the collar has been shown in three-quarter view with the shaft of the sagaris emerging from it. It seems that this was an infantry-only type of armour or method of carrying the sagaris.

The infantryman from Persepolis is clearly wearing a Median hood/tiara/kyrbasia with his armour. I believe that the Cannakkale horseman is wearing the same. Of course, a skullcap would fit under one of those quite nicely, so they could still be wearing helmets. A flat-topped typology would fit nicely with the artistic evidence but I don't know of any finds.

It's brown like a cap, so that seems fitting, but I don't think much can be said beyond that.

I'm not convinced that this cut of armour derives from the Black Sea/Aegean region tube-and-yoke cuirass. The sleeves and high neckguard are significant differences, and some Assyrian reliefs show what looks like thin pterges. It seems like it could be Central Asian in origin.

The shoulder-guards are significantly different, but it certainly wouldn't be hard to adapt a tube-and-yoke to make them. The high neckguard is not significantly different at all - it could easily just be an oversized rectangular neckguard. The Persians would not be the only ones at this time to adapt the tube-and-yoke to their own preferences - look at the contemporary Celtic statues from Roqueperteuse and Glanum, which have enormous oversized "backboards," unlike the Greek tube-and-yokes in use at that time.

A Central Asian origin can be ruled out for this style of cuirass. The type of heavy cuirass with a collar that we find in Central Asia concurrent with the last century or so of the Persian empire (and these source depicting Persian armour) show a completely different style of high collar that is the same height all round from where it begins at the side of the face to the portion covering the back of the neck which derives from earlier Chinese charioteer armour. It is only later, toward the first century BC on, for instance, the coins of the Saka rulers Tanlismiadates, Vonones, and Azes II that we see a collar which rises steeply toward the back of the neck; this style of collar of course reaches its apogee in the Orlat battle plaques, which can be dated to probably around the second century AD. The collars seen on these Persian cuirasses only cover the back of the neck, and there is nothing at the sides.