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Linothorax vs Quilted linen vs spolas
Quote:Padded armour does have more of a 'pedigree' in terms of armour usage (being the most common type), whereas laminated armours are not particularly common.
Most of the textile armour designed to be used on its own was layered and quilted, not "padded". This holds true in India, Wetern Europe, South America, the Middle East, Russia, Asian Steppes, etc.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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Quote:
Thunder:2otd9mt7 Wrote:Padded armour does have more of a 'pedigree' in terms of armour usage (being the most common type), whereas laminated armours are not particularly common.
Most of the textile armour designed to be used on its own was layered and quilted, not "padded". This holds true in India, Wetern Europe, South America, the Middle East, Russia, Asian Steppes, etc.

Quilted, padded, layered - Six, two-threes.
Alexander Hunt, Mercenary Economist-for-hire, modeller, amateur historian, debater and amateur wargames designer. May have been involved in the conquest of Baktria.
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I was referring to laminated armour as meaning layered cloth quilted together. The so-called "glued" variety never existed anywhere. It is a modern fabrication with no historical basis.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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Quote:I was referring to laminated armour as meaning layered cloth quilted together. The so-called "glued" variety never existed anywhere. It is a modern fabrication with no historical basis.

It certainly does not seem to have much supporting evidence. Quilted armours are relatively common light armour designs (and are also the precursor to every heavier armour type). However, I was referring to the glued version of the armour in my use of 'laminated', as laminated armours have turned up before.
Alexander Hunt, Mercenary Economist-for-hire, modeller, amateur historian, debater and amateur wargames designer. May have been involved in the conquest of Baktria.
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Quote:However, I was referring to the glued version of the armour in my use of 'laminated', as laminated armours have turned up before.
Where?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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Quote:
Thunder:d0ttkjdk Wrote:However, I was referring to the glued version of the armour in my use of 'laminated', as laminated armours have turned up before.
Where?

[url:d0ttkjdk]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamellar_armour[/url]
Alexander Hunt, Mercenary Economist-for-hire, modeller, amateur historian, debater and amateur wargames designer. May have been involved in the conquest of Baktria.
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What has lamellar got to do with layered textiles? "Laminated" does not equal "lamellar". These forums become very confusing unless everyone uses the same terminology.

"Scale" = small plates overlapped and fixed to a foundation with lacing or rivets.
"Segmented"/Laminar" = large plates overlapped and fixed to each other and/or a foundation with lacing or rivets.
"Lamellar" = small plates laced together so that there is no need for a foundation.
"Laminated" = multiple layers of material joined together to create a thicker product
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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Quote:What has lamellar got to do with layered textiles? "Laminated" does not equal "lamellar". These forums become very confusing unless everyone uses the same terminology.

"Scale" = small plates overlapped and fixed to a foundation with lacing or rivets.
"Segmented"/Laminar" = large plates overlapped and fixed to each other and/or a foundation with lacing or rivets.
"Lamellar" = small plates laced together so that there is no need for a foundation.
"Laminated" = multiple layers of material joined together to create a thicker product

Hmm. Well, it would seem that the custom of using hardening agents such as glues and resins on leather armour is relatively common, though as to specifically laminating armour, I am unsure.
Alexander Hunt, Mercenary Economist-for-hire, modeller, amateur historian, debater and amateur wargames designer. May have been involved in the conquest of Baktria.
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I thought that this is best placed here. I found a few more examples of the Mars of Todi Type in Tuscany. Not all pics are good, since I wasn´t using flash and the light was often dim. There´s also an other pic of an etruscan type, with two wide bands over the belly. Anyway, here you go.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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Nice pictures, Christian !

I see you have paid a visit to the archaeological museum of Florence ! The first picture is of a funerary urn from Chiusi.

Interstingly, originally it was painted in full colours - an illustration appears in Connolly's "Hannibal and the enemies of Rome", p.28

The second engraved mirror back is one of a number of similar type showing duelling pairs of warriors, usually named, as here.

As to the 'Todi' type of Tube-and-Yoke corselets, a very good depiction in full colour from Tarquinii appears also on p.28 of Connolly - the corselet appears to be a natural leather colour - and the rectangular re-inforcements ( this time laid 'brick fashion') are identical, implying these were leather also.......
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Yes, I was. Smile Unfortunately the second floor was closed due to a lack of personal, and the ground floor was taken by an exposition which I had seen last year in Grosetto already... so the normal exhibition was somewhat reduced... o0
I also took pics in Tarquinia, but have to sort them out first...
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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You know, I've yet to visit an Italian museum where all the rooms or exhibits were open. It is very frustrating to travel from afar to find various rooms blocked off with the ubiquitous sign saying "chiuso per restoratio" - though of course that is usually not the real reason, as you say, it is far more often shortage of staff..... Sad

Very much loking forward to more photos of your Italian sojourn.... Smile
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Type and yoke quilted and segmented.
This example coming from ancient pottery was reinforced with metal.
Yet before metal was added it withstood a 50lbs crossbow.
Perhaps some pottery images were accurate depictions then we think.
Kind regards
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very interesting T&Y ,i think what you say re. pottery is true we learn more all the time. great thread 8)
Hannibal ad portas ! Dave Bartlett . " War produces many stories of fiction , some of which are told until they are believed to be true." U S Grant
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Hey Stefanos, that T-Y with the rivets reminded me of this image.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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