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Linothorax vs Quilted linen vs spolas
#66
O.K. my fine frozen Canadian friends, I’ll bite! Bait taken !
Christian/Kineas wrote:
Quote:That's 'Breastplates of new linen" and when I make this point to Paul, he insists that it is "out of period."

I'm not convinced either way. Alcaeus was born (probably) in the 40th Olympiad, around 620BC and was involved with attempts to overthrow Pittacus in the 42nd Olympiad, around 608. He may have served in the "Eclipse Battle" of 585. He died old--as late as 560 or so.

Further, although I've heard it asserted that there's no Tube and Yoke at this date, I'd offer by way of example that they become common in art by 525, and allowing for Greek artistic conservatism (just look at the time it takes them to adjust to changes in women's fashion!) it is perfectly possible that Alcaeus is talking about linen tube and yoke armours.

…first, I don’t "insist", but rather, as I have often said, assert that one thing is more probable than another…..

Let us consider Cole/Nikolaos’ Alcaeus quotation further, and I am going to be pedantic about him !

Firstly, it is correct that Alcaeus of Mytilene on Lesbos’ birth date is unknown – some commentators have him born before 630 BC, but it might have been as late as 620 BC, in which case he would have been a little young (12!) to have participated with Pittacus and the Oligarchs to overthrow the Tyrant Melanchros, though it is believed Alcaeus’ older brothers were among the leaders. ( Later Alcaeus would fall out with Pittacus)
That he ‘died old’ is only suggested ( I believe) by a fragment of poetry in which he describes himself as an ‘old man’ - but that may mean 50, or even late 40’s !
Certainly he is not heard of after 585 BC, and hence probably died not that long after – 560 BC, when he would have been 80 or 90 is probably stretching it a bit, and certainly Cole’s fragment was not written as late as this. What is incontestable is that it was written long before the ‘T-and-Y’ appeared in Mainland Greece ( see below).
I would also challenge the statement “…. that they become common in Art by 525 BC.” I’m curious as to how many examples you are basing this on ?
The earliest known depiction of an unambiguous ‘T-and-Y’ (white is sometimes used for other armours) I know of is on an Attic Black-figure ‘Eye-cup’ by Exekias ( floreat 540-530 BC). At least two examples of this eye-cup exist, and one version shows the fallen hero without, and the other with an un-mistakeable ‘T-and-Y’. This suggests that Exekias saw what to him was a new-fangled armour and he was quick to depict it. (contra Christian’s suggestion regarding conservatism in Greek art). [see attached]

Next, Alcaeus’ poetry only survives in fragments, of which the piece Cole quotes, often called ‘The Armoury’ is the longest. Some debate whether the reference is to Epic/Heroic matters or contemporary politics, but I believe that such a debate is un-necessary. Alcaeus sometimes makes scurrilous attacks on individuals ( such as when he fell out with Pittacus) but is usually circumspect when making political comment, usually using allegory, for example a poem about a ship on storm-tossed seas about to be wrecked is an allegory for the “ship of state”. All the surviving fragments of Alcaeus that have military references are to the Trojan War, the Abduction of Helen etc. It would thus seem likely therefore that ‘The Armoury’ is Epic/Heroic too, with an allegory to contemporary politics, and Alcaeus’ listeners at a symposium would take heed of the exhortation, it not being lost on them. That would put Alcaeus’ “ ..white corselets of new linen..” on a par with Homer’s “..linen corseleted Argives..” ( incidently, Homer may have been active around 670 BC, only a generation or two earlier)
So, we have Alcaeus writing on Lesbos ( off the coast of Asia Minor, where linen corselets certainly existed though not apparently this early) c. 600 BC, and the first known depiction of a ‘T-and-Y’ in Greece c. 535 BC, some 65 years later, and that is as close as you can pull these two together.

I would venture to suggest the possibility that the ‘T-and-Y’ was invented in Athens sometime around 535 BC, and was most likely made of Alum-tawed leather, which was a known major industry in Athens at the time. Later, during and after the Persian Wars, it would come to be re-inforced with scales and metal plates, particularly on the un-shielded side ( implying a need for increased protection against Persian arrows) and some may have been entirely covered in scales. Notice that the re-inforcement is added to the exterior whereas were it composed of layers it would have been easy to 'sandwich' metal plates, as Paul Bardunias and others have suggested.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Re: Linothorax vs Quilted linen vs spolas - by Paullus Scipio - 02-26-2009, 12:55 AM

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