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Watchmen...Roots in Ancient Rome?
#1
Indeed, according to this article about the philosophy of the comic book and now film Watchmen

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090305/fil ... EEf9hxFb8C

ROMAN ROOTS
The original series took the name from the phrase "Who watches the Watchmen?" which dates back to the 1st century Roman poet Juvenal and has been the subject of philosophical debate for centuries.

Ancient Rome is forever with us.

:wink:

Narukami
David Reinke
Burbank CA
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#2
When I took my first undergraduate class in criminology, the obligatory "History of..." chapter stated policing was instituted by the Romans through the establishment of the "watch" (Vigils). One student asked what the Roman police did to make criminals of people, since there was no watch before the Romans, and to back up his point he pointed out that "most of the law is writen in Latin." I should add there was a current theory of Criminology that was in vogue at the time that theorized that the police cause crime, since if they were not there to report it, that is, find crime, that there would be none. (If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to write an Incident Report, has the tree really fallen?) When I went to the police academy the "Roman watch" idea was still being taught.

From this argument I can assume that there was no crime, or need for anything resembling a watch, before the Romans invented crime as an excuse to write laws. Egypt, Assyria, Greece, Persia, and everyone else in between simply had no need of a watch or any sort of law enforcement.

In any event, with no crime there would be no material for screenplays. Maybe Hollywood should do a "Day without Police." I am sure things would be instantly Utopic.

Ralph I.
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#3
Sounds like somebody was confusing "law," an abstraction, with "police," an enforcement body. Everybody had laws from way back. The bible is big on laws. The code of Hammurabi lists plenty of laws together with punishments for their violation. My favorite: "He who waters his neighbor's beer shall be drowned." The difference was that in earlier times enforcement was spotty. It was still spotty under the Romans. The vigiles were manly a fire watch. People mainly settled their own problems or citizens grabbed malefactors, hauled them off to the praetor's court and pressed charges. Modern police didn't exist until the 19th century. Crime wasn't invented then, either.
Pecunia non olet
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#4
I realise I'm about four months behind, but just found the website by accident. The following is a quotation from my book Police Forces of the World (Zeus Publications, 2006), now sadly out of print: "The concept of a regulatory body of men assigned to keep the peace in society is as old as civilisation. Ancient Sumer (c.3500 - c.1800 BC), where modern Iraq now stands, is believed to have had a policing body.
'The earliest confirmed reference to a formalised force, as distinct from pursuit of malefactors by the community in general, is found in dynastic Egypt (c.3000 - 30BC). A sort of Gendarmerie known as the Medjay - whose members were recruited mainly from Nubian stock - guarded fontiers and pursued criminals, hauling them before the courts, and a "chief of police" was mentioned as early as the 11th century BC. He ranked in parallel with the kingdom's 42 district headmen. The Medjay were also responsible for safeguarding against tomb robbery, then a particularly heinous crime and still something of a problem in modern Egypt. Under Alexander the Great, the Medjay became a Royal Corps of Watchers led by Greek commanders.
'What appear to have been police boxes stood on street corners in the c.2600 - c.1800 BC cities of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro ("Mound of the Dead") in the Indus Valley, present-day Pakistan....
'The Roman Vigiles ("Watch") probably constituted the world's first structured police force, founded about 27 BC under the rule of Emperor Augustus (58 BC - AD 14). Until its inception the Roman Army's Cohors Urbis ("Town Corps") had been liable for the maintenance of law and order. The Vigiles were deployed in 14 city districts and were also appointed to be Rome's firefighters. Indeed, The Oxford History of the Classical World (1993 edition) refers to them as a "Metropolitan Police Force and Fire Brigade".
'They were organised in two ranks - Lictor ("Constable", literally "lawman" or - loosely - "attendant") and Curator ("Supervisor", literally "guardian") - and were commanded by the Praefectus Urbis ("City Prefect" or "Town Officer") who was a Magistrate. A Curator was in charge of each of the 14 districts.
'The Vigiles were directly answerable to the city Magistrates and their badge was the fasces, a bundle of rods wrapped around an axe carried into court over the left shoulder of a Lictor and used to inflict appropriate punishments when required. The device has since been incorporated into the badges of several modern police forces.... Fasces gave us the word "fascist" which attracted unfortunate connotations in the 1920s and'30s. The de facto chief of police was the Chief Magistrate of Rome, who held the title Praetor ("Principal"). He was subordinate to Consuls of the elected government.
'Roman law enforcers were goven specific authority to act as market police, building police, street police and morality police. No fewer than 424 stations were established to provide a comprehensive coverage of city blocks. The night patrol was headed by a Praefectus Vigilum ("Watch Officer") and consisted of 1,000 men organised in seven cohorts.'
A couple of years ago British TV produced quite an entertaining series "The Vigils of Rome", but it doesn't appear to have come to DVD as yet. One thing it pointed out, which I omitted to mention, was that the Roman Watch wore yellow tunics as uniform.
I hope this helps those who were wondering where police began.
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#5
To paraphrase one famous letter to The Economist, sometimes one sentence with multiple subjects can give hours of entertainment. :wink:

Quote:The Vigiles were directly answerable to the city Magistrates and their badge was the fasces, a bundle of rods wrapped around an axe carried into court over the left shoulder of a Lictor and used to inflict appropriate punishments when required.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#6
Quote:A couple of years ago British TV produced quite an entertaining series "The Vigils of Rome", but it doesn't appear to have come to DVD as yet. One thing it pointed out, which I omitted to mention, was that the Roman Watch wore yellow tunics as uniform.
I hope this helps those who were wondering where police began.
Bill, thanks for the information.

Do you know the evidence for yellow uniforms?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#7
Yellow uniforms were news to me, too, when I saw the TV series. :|
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