Roman Marching/Temporary Camps

[Nerva]

Salve David!

That is impressive isn't it. Thanks for the link, much appreciated.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Btw folks, there is a very good section on marching camps in the Osprey title

Roman armies of the civil wars 88 - 31 BC by Nic Fields

It talks about the road layout, the intervellum, ditch construction Pila muralis etc

A good account overall. Still not sure how you get a 5 foot wide by 3 foot deep ditch to give you a five foot high wall.... :?

[Nerva]

Btw folks, there is a very good section on marching camps in the Osprey title

Roman armies of the civil wars 88 - 31 BC by Nic Fields

It talks about the road layout, the intervellum, ditch construction Pila muralis etc

A good account overall. Still not sure how you get a 5 foot wide by 3 foot deep ditch to give you a five foot high wall.... :?

Ohh, thanks for that Byron, off to Amazon now :wink:

[M. Demetrius]

Still not sure how you get a 5 foot wide by 3 foot deep ditch to give you a five foot high wall....

Not that hard, except for all the labor: you just pile the dirt you take out into a reverse shape, and put all the bodies you want to hide in the lower level to take up the extra space. Heh.

[D B Campbell]

... a very good section on marching camps in the Osprey title Roman armies of the civil wars 88 - 31 BC by Nic Fields ...

Hmmm ... presumably the same section on temporary camps that he used in his previous Battle Orders title? ( :wink: )

Ohh, thanks for that Byron, off to Amazon now

Save your money, Martin. Peter Connolly is a far better authority for temporary camps.

[jvrjenivs]

I second that Connolly is a beter source for this.

Also, I don't know if you know about it, but did you see the project (and try-out temporary camp) we did last year at Nijmegen. Okay, the wall rebuilt at Nijmegen wasn't of temporary, but it gave a real good feeling to do!
link from old RAT
Also, Jasper did a report of the progress on his blog on the AW website. (see also my paper in that other topic).

and 2 pics of our temporary/test camp at Xanten/Birten ealier last year (kindly worked together with the German Legio XV Primigenia) and the construction:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually Duncan, he doesn't say anything startling, but it is an easier book to carry, and is clear and concise, in a short space

He also quotes his sources, Polibius, Hyginus and Vegetius, so why would he be wrong?

Does Connelly have a book specifically on camps? Then that would be worth the purchase, but this is a good handy source, and is not that expensive. :wink: Especially if you are interested in the Republican(late era)

He is also capable of naming the roads, the intervellum excetera, which are all pretty basic knowledge about a camp, so really what is new to be said about camps...? (Sorry Brian, not having a go here)

Go buy it Martin and make your own mind up. :wink: It won't break your bank, and has quite a few interesting anecdotes in it.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The real question is, if Connelly is such a great source, and his book has been on the go for so long, why is there so much confusion on the issue of camps?

[Nerva]

Save your money, Martin. Peter Connolly is a far better authority for temporary camps.

Salve Duncan. Now Peter Connolly is a man I have who commands great respect. Would you be able to recommend a particular publication of his?

Vale

[D B Campbell]

Now Peter Connolly is a man who commands great respect. Would you be able to recommend a particular publication of his?

Indeed he is, Martin. He's spent half a lifetime researching the Roman army in particular, which must command some respect.

The Roman Army (1975) was the book which first fired my enthusiasm as a schoolboy! It's still a great read. Much of the content found its way into the larger Greece and Rome At War (1981; reissued with minor alterations, 1998), which is still far and away the best book on ancient warfare. If you don't have a copy, then get one! //www.amazon.co.uk/Tiberius-Claudius-Maximus-Legionary-Roman/dp/0199104255/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237551749&sr=1-12:3oohhpj0]The Legionary[/url] (1997), too. And with Peter, you can be sure he's tested everything himself, and not simply lifted information from other authors.

[D B Campbell]

He also quotes his sources, Polibius, Hyginus and Vegetius, so why would he be wrong?

I'm curious to know what relevance Polybius, Hyginus or Vegetius have to the period 88-31 BC. Sounds as if Mr Fields had some blank pages to pad out! :wink: (Just teasing, Byron!)

The real question is, if Connelly is such a great source, and his book has been on the go for so long, why is there so much confusion on the issue of camps?

Depends what you mean by confusion. If you want a solid, sensible discussion of Roman camps accompanied by excellent original graphics, then Connolly's your man.

[Nerva]

The Roman Army[/url] (1975) was the book which first fired my enthusiasm as a schoolboy! It's still a great read.

What a fantastic book :!: I'm not embarrassed to say that I still use it as a reference to this day :wink: And as you say there's The Legionary, The Cavalryman, The Roman Fort and so on. I know Chris Haynes was awarded an MBE last year for his services to Roman history and deservedly so, but surely then Peter Connolly should be Knighted.

And with Peter, you can be sure he's tested everything himself, and not simply lifted information from other authors.

Len Morgan tells a funny story about that. Len attended a talk given by Peter some years back on the four horned saddle. Peter had brought his example and put it on a stand so it could be tested. Peter noticed Len in the crowed and asked if he would be so kind as to demonstrate how one mounted the saddle. As Len was jumping to mount the saddle he slipped and broke a rib on one of the horns. In spite of the pain Len continued to mount the saddle and demonstrate its use because he was too embarrassed to let people see he had injured himself :oops:

Thanks for the info :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

He also quotes his sources, Polibius, Hyginus and Vegetius, so why would he be wrong?

I'm curious to know what relevance Polybius, Hyginus or Vegetius have to the period 88-31 BC. Sounds as if Mr Fields had some blank pages to pad out! :wink: (Just teasing, Byron!)

The real question is, if Connelly is such a great source, and his book has been on the go for so long, why is there so much confusion on the issue of camps?

Depends what you mean by confusion. If you want a solid, sensible discussion of Roman camps accompanied by excellent original graphics, then Connolly's your man.

Well I doo have his books, but then I just happened to be reading this one at the moment, so thought I would mention it.

That is why I ask what everyone has to debate the construction of camps so often, when connoly has pictures showing them........
:wink: :mrgreen:

[D B Campbell]

That is why I ask what everyone has to debate the construction of camps so often, when Connolly has pictures showing them........

Good point, Byron. The basic form of the Roman camp isn't seriously in dispute (although there appear to be examples which lack the ditch, so the physical form of camps may not have been so uniform). We know the main forms of gate protection (although the significance of the different forms is still a mystery). And we think we know the theoretical layout, based on the three authors you mentioned. But the precise use of temporary camps, and the relationship between size and function, are still matters for debate.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I was looking at an excellent picture of on of the Masada Seige camps in anothercough cough Osprey title, and was struck at how it looks just like a marching camps description, obviously with differences like rubble walls and internal structures, but it really reflects the description of Forts being improved marching camps etc. almost like a camp or almost fort, preserved in stone. A 'Template' for a marching camp in stone...

It made me wonder though, if these seige camps had wooded towers and gatehouses,
like Caesars, or not? Sorry to wander off a bit here, but to me it all seems related.