Hybrid Phalanx Theory

[PMBardunias]

Interesting, do you now mean the Spartan king Cleomenes the third at the battle of Sellasia? And how did they get past the other 4 ranks of Sarrisa's(when they grabbed the Sarissa of the front rank)?

You'll find Cleonymus' story in Plutarch's life of Pyrrhus. He was a Spartan who was in the line of succession in one of the royal lines. He served as a mercenary general in Italy, probably facing Romans at one point. He later attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself based on Corcyra before attaching himself to Pyrrhus. Pyrrhus would later make an unsuccessful attack on Sparta in an attempt to support Cleonymus's claim to the throne.

We don't know much about the tactic I described- one line in one of the tactical manuals (Frontinus perhaps). Cleonymus used the tactic when taking a breach in a wall so perhaps the phalanx was atypical in some way.

[WriterNotViking]

Well when the Romans faced the Makedonian Phalanxes those were for the biggest part made up of Levy Phalangites who were called for in the army because of the Roman treat.(levy in name only). The Pezhetairoi on the other hand would be a professional Phalangite soldier, I think that they would make a average quality swordsmen when engaged, far from defenseless.

Would they have been the equal of soldiers trained exclusively to fight with the sword? Or, more interestingly, exactly what do we know of the level of training professional phalangites received with the sword?

[WriterNotViking]

Interesting, do you now mean the Spartan king Cleomenes the third at the battle of Sellasia? And how did they get past the other 4 ranks of Sarrisa's(when they grabbed the Sarissa of the front rank)?

You'll find Cleonymus' story in Plutarch's life of Pyrrhus. He was a Spartan who was in the line of succession in one of the royal lines. He served as a mercenary general in Italy, probably facing Romans at one point. He later attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself based on Corcyra before attaching himself to Pyrrhus. Pyrrhus would later make an unsuccessful attack on Sparta in an attempt to support Cleonymus's claim to the throne.

We don't know much about the tactic I described- one line in one of the tactical manuals (Frontinus perhaps). Cleonymus used the tactic when taking a breach in a wall so perhaps the phalanx was atypical in some way.

Thank you very much for this information.

[nikolaos]

I'm going to be a bit of a heretic here and opine that equipment is only a component of battlefield performance, and before weapon and armour interactions should be considered, you must look at the morale and discipline of the combatants.

And excellent example of this comes from the American revolution. In the stand up battles units were identically armed and equipped, but in all but a handful the British won, often outnumbered. The British Grenadiers were never defeated when they were fielded in the war, even after taking casualties as high as 90% in some cases (Hubbardton for instance, where they climbed a mountain in the face of enemy fire and then routed the troops at the top).

Primary source accounts tell us exactly why. In almost every case, the less disciplined and lower morale troops broke and ran BEFORE they came into contact with British, or even fired a shot.

Now, you might ask what this has to do with ancient warfare, but I believe that swords or pikes or sharpened sticks, the morale of the men wielding them matters more than the equipment.

I believe I can argue that Herodotus' Plataea account tells us this in detail. The Persians are described as being no less brave than their Spartan opponents at the Temple of Demeter. Even though their lack of armour, skill, and discipline hurts them in their attacks on the Spartans, they attack relentlessly as long as Mardonious is able to hold their morale together, and they do a fair work of execution. But when he falls, they lose their will to stand and fight, and flee.

Here is the original quote:

"Where Mardonius was himself, riding a white horse in the battle and surrounded by a thousand picked men who were the flower of the Persians, there they pressed their adversaries hardest. So long as Mardonius was alive the Persians stood their ground and defended themselves, overthrowing many Lacedaemonians. When, however, Mardonius was killed and his guards, who were the strongest part of the army, had also fallen, then the rest too yielded and gave ground before the men of Lacedaemon." (Hdt. 9.63, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apter%3D63 )

That, and as a reader to a writer, there's a lot more drama in contests of morale than weapon porn.

Have fun!
Cole