A Roman Fort - Animation

[Decimus_Vitus]

I found it very interesting infact very good indeed however I don't know if you remember a topic of discussion about this fort where Yuri and I talked an awful lot about it.
What I find is that the fort is shown to be behind Hadrians' Wall and that is the point I would disagree with, but then other than that everything is just wonderfull.
If I may be allowed to go a little off topic it is my opinion that the Pons Aelius fort is not a Wall fort at all but belongs to the Stanegate frontier, and when the Wall was built it was tied onto the Northwest corner of this fort.

Yes I remember the debate. And if I remember correctly it could have gone either way....But alas it was not my call. I took my direction from my client, Yuri as he was footing the bill for the project. Yes I would have liked to see the wall connected as is at Housesteads. Thanks so much for your input!!

[PhilusEstilius]

Steve. I find your subject very interesting and I know the Pons Aelius aspect has been completed now, however it would have been so good to have shown a Roman Dam that would have stood just upstream of the Bridge near this fort.
This is some thing about the supply logistics of the Wall and other places that many are not aware of, indeed on Monday of this week I took Martin Mcaree and friends along the river Tyne to where part of a Roman Dam with it's pound lock is still intact.
This was at Bywell some five miles east of Corbridge where the Roman Dere crossed the river Tyne. If you should ever have to do anything concerning the fort of Segedunum there is a reason why the Wall leaves this fort at it's Southeast corner and goes to the river Tyne, and it has everything to do with what I have just mentioned about Dams.

[Gluteus Maximus]

Absolutely fantastic!!What more can I say? I am relieved to see that your 3d computer models look broadly the same as my creations in Foam - board, clay and picture framing card. One question: I note that your reconstructed turret has one upper floor - I tend to model mine with two ( See: <!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24626">viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24626<!-- l halfway through the thread) - do you think there was a standard with this? I note that the foundations of turrets tend to vary greatly in depth and quality, so maybe both kinds were present. Perhaps two floors were needed in low lying areas, where greater elevation was needed, and one floor on high spots such as the central sector?

[Decimus_Vitus]

Steve. I find your subject very interesting and I know the Pons Aelius aspect has been completed now, however it would have been so good to have shown a Roman Dam that would have stood just upstream of the Bridge near this fort.
This is some thing about the supply logistics of the Wall and other places that many are not aware of, indeed on Monday of this week I took Martin Mcaree and friends along the river Tyne to where part of a Roman Dam with it's pound lock is still intact.
This was at Bywell some five miles east of Corbridge where the Roman Dere crossed the river Tyne. If you should ever have to do anything concerning the fort of Segedunum there is a reason why the Wall leaves this fort at it's Southeast corner and goes to the river Tyne, and it has everything to do with what I have just mentioned about Dams.

The dam sounds interesting and to be honest I don't recall hearing anything about a dam in the area. It would be interesting to do a scene of the Romans contructing it. I am not from the area ...judging from the width of the river it must have been an enormous dam.


- Thanks Neil. Fantastic reconstruction you did there. I admire your model making skills. Not sure about the turrets of which you speak. Most of what I have read about and info I collected seem to lean towards a two story building turret. But as you mentioned there could possibly have been 3 story turrets at certain points.

[PhilusEstilius]

Steve. The idea of a Roman Dam is not a flight of fancy for my late friend Ramond Selkirk proved this, the subject he was famous for was Logistics and how the Romans supplied not only Wall forts but all or most all of their establishments. Infact if you check out Roman establishments in GB you will find that more than 95% of these are by waterways.
It becomes very interesting indeed when we check out that the Romans had Tigrian Barge men based at the mouth of the river Tyne, and the name slips my mind at this time but was there not also another such regiment based at the Solway Firth on the west end of Hadrians' Wall

Neil. I do not wish to be rude in any way but there were no towers at milecastles, and that was even at the maximum width of the Wall which was 10 Roman feet.

[Gluteus Maximus]

Neil. I do not wish to be rude in any way but there were no towers at milecastles, and that was even at the maximum width of the Wall which was 10 Roman feet.

Dont worry Brian, I never take it as rudeness if someone takes issue with authenticity of my models, as they are made to provoke debate However, I do like references and evidence to back up the statement, and thus far I have not found any definitive archaeological evidence, or primary sources, that categorically state that there were no towers at milecastles.

Every single reconstruction I have seen of a milecastle - including the excellent animation under discussion here - seems to indicate that there was, and this is directly influenced by the findings of Birley, Breeze et al. I would also say that out of 75 milecastles, all under occupation for 260 years and undergoing several rebuilds, we should be wary of making a blanket statement which encompasses all these structures. It is possible that many different combinations of tower/no tower, 2 storey/3 storey tower were to be seen at any one time, and would have been dependent on topography, availability of building materials and even the whims of the engineers conducting the building.

The one major issue I would take with all the reconstructions - including mine - is that the masonry at both North and South gates of a milecastle is identical, and I wonder why it has become canon that there was a tower at the North gate but not at the South.

[PhilusEstilius]

Neil. I think that as you mention the structure of the south gates tends to mirror the north gates infact the Wall at milecastle 37 just west of Housesteads is only 8 feet thick, and one can't imagine there would have been any width whatever for such structures.
The milecastles were intended for traffic thro' the Wall and I find it a misconception when archaeologists or others begin to mention soldiers patroling the wall, as if there was about to be an attack at any time not so.
I do think that with the very good intelligence system that the Romans had they would have known exactly what was going on hundreds of miles away in Scotland at any time, infact the only times that the Wall became over run was when political or military mismanagement allowed that to happen.
Then of course we do find that after rebuilds the north gates of many of these milecastles were reduced to only Postern size such as infact MC 37 itself which was only 3ft 9inchs

[Decimus_Vitus]

Hmmm Neil just as a side note...and I have no proof of this but after looking at your model coudn't it be possible that ..in some cases the Romans built a roof over turrets that were otherwise open to the elements? That would indeed make it 3 levels.

Just a thought ...Cheers

[Komet]

Hey Steve,

Have you ever thought about submitting a paper describing/demonstrating your models in any academic, peer-reviewed fora? If you feel confident in the historic integrity of your digital reconstruction of the fort, I'd suggest taking a look into Computer Applications in Archaeology (in Granada, Spain next year; it was just in Williamsburg, Va. two weeks ago). It is a conference that draws many archaeologists and computer scientists who do a lot of work in the field of digital archaeology. There are always great presentations on new modeling projects, particularly in the ever-popular field of Roman antiquities. Other topics at the conference generally include archaeological data management, laser scanning projects, GIS, etc.

Also, you should look into this: http://www3.iath.virginia.edu/save/

[Decimus_Vitus]

Thanks Ethan for the info. I will certainly look into what these establishments have to offer. If there is an interest in my work (fort reconstruction or other) I'd be willing to submit my ideas. Most of what I've done has been used for compulsory education or public education as opposed to the higher levels of academia. My work has been published in a childrens book, as well as, put on exhibit for the Museum Victoria in Australia (coming this summer) So yes, I am very much interested in providing some sort of educational element going forward.

[Komet]

CAA isn't really limited to academics or computer scientists either. There are a number of representatives from non-profit educational companies who do virtual reality for K-12/museum education, like PublicVR

[marvises]

nice animation man i go to school for Interactive Media Design and what program did you use to build the auxilia soldiers? and i assumed you used photoshop to render textures for them am i correct :?:

[Decimus_Vitus]

nice animation man i go to school for Interactive Media Design and what program did you use to build the auxilia soldiers? and i assumed you used photoshop to render textures for them am i correct :?:

Thanks Dan. I did used a program called poser to create the figures. I created my own texures in photoshop to "skin" them. Most everything else buildings, props, equipment, I modelled in Cinema 4.

[marvises]

nice animation man i go to school for Interactive Media Design and what program did you use to build the auxilia soldiers? and i assumed you used photoshop to render textures for them am i correct :?:

Thanks Dan. I did used a program called poser to create the figures. I created my own texures in photoshop to "skin" them. Most everything else buildings, props, equipment, I modelled in Cinema 4.

is "Poser" free? and yeah we use 3d Studio Max for our modeling ^_^

[richsc]

By which did you mean Cinema 4D?

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