Persian archer equipment

[daryush]

For your impression, the IndoPersian bow might be a little bit too late - but a very nice bow! (I own one ;-) ) )

How does it shoot (compared with, say, the old scythian)? I'm thinking of getting one but Grozer says that it's not a very good design.

Do you have any pictures of it?

Thanks!

[Dan D'Silva]

Well, based on everyone's recommendations I'm currently looking at an Old Scythian from Eastern Archery (which definitely ships to the US).

Regarding the reliefs: The hooks or thongs, whichever they may be, for both the gorytos and the sword scabbards actually appear to go through the belt, unless my eyes deceive me. But either a hook or a sturdy leather lace will allow the gorytos to be turned forward. On top of everything else, I've noticed the Achaemenian gorytos is really oddly-shaped... the lower end seems to curve opposite the curve of the bow, unless the bow is very short. Anyone know why that is?

[fwg]

For your impression, the IndoPersian bow might be a little bit too late - but a very nice bow! (I own one ;-) ) )

How does it shoot (compared with, say, the old scythian)? I'm thinking of getting one but Grozer says that it's not a very good design.

Do you have any pictures of it?

Thanks!

My bow (38 lb) can be seen here: [url:2bpp32tm]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_indopers_38_PICT1011.htm[/url]

I can compare it to the 'usual' fibreglass/wood old Scythian bow (45 lb) Grozer made. The comparison to a 'genuine' horn/wood/sinew Scytian might be quite useless, because this one can´t be purchased...

Compared to the 45lb Scythian ([url:2bpp32tm]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_scyth_45_PICT1016.htm[/url]), the IndoPersion is less effective, meaning slower. But the handling is great. It seems to be stiffer, but can also be strung up to 32". The decoration of red and black leather is nicely done.

In fact, the IndoPersian is one of my favourite bows. I use it most times when not on Roman reenactment events (so in private).

[daryush]

For your impression, the IndoPersian bow might be a little bit too late - but a very nice bow! (I own one ;-) ) )

How does it shoot (compared with, say, the old scythian)? I'm thinking of getting one but Grozer says that it's not a very good design.

Do you have any pictures of it?

Thanks!

My bow (38 lb) can be seen here: [url:17nl944p]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_indopers_38_PICT1011.htm[/url]

I can compare it to the 'usual' fibreglass/wood old Scythian bow (45 lb) Grozer made. The comparison to a 'genuine' horn/wood/sinew Scytian might be quite useless, because this one can´t be purchased...

Compared to the 45lb Scythian ([url:17nl944p]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_scyth_45_PICT1016.htm[/url]), the IndoPersion is less effective, meaning slower. But the handling is great. It seems to be stiffer, but can also be strung up to 32". The decoration of red and black leather is nicely done.

In fact, the IndoPersian is one of my favourite bows. I use it most times when not on Roman reenactment events (so in private).

I've just had a look at your website - are all the bows in that display rack yours hock:
Jealous :twisted:

(sorry if you mentioned this somewhere in the text - my German is horrific)

The glass scythian is quite vicious but I love the shape of the Indo-Persian. Any estimation as to how it would fare against another Grozer bow of 38 lb. I'd be getting it in 60 lb or higher if poss though.

Do you have any pictures of it drawn?

Thanks!

[jonwr]

If you are not going the custom route I would also suggest Grozer. Trolling through the archives at http://www.atarn.org/frameindex.htm will net you bags of information.
Also have a look here for bows. He is a pretty good guy to deal with.
www.eastern-archery.com/
I have several Asian style bows from different bowyers including a horn bow from Korea but must admit if I'm off for a quick shoot I take Grozer's Indo Persian.
Jon R.

[fwg]

My bow (38 lb) can be seen here: [url:2ocltwru]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_indopers_38_PICT1011.htm[/url]

I can compare it to the 'usual' fibreglass/wood old Scythian bow (45 lb) Grozer made. The comparison to a 'genuine' horn/wood/sinew Scytian might be quite useless, because this one can´t be purchased...

Compared to the 45lb Scythian ([url:2ocltwru]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_grozer_scyth_45_PICT1016.htm[/url]), the IndoPersion is less effective, meaning slower. But the handling is great. It seems to be stiffer, but can also be strung up to 32". The decoration of red and black leather is nicely done.

In fact, the IndoPersian is one of my favourite bows. I use it most times when not on Roman reenactment events (so in private).

I've just had a look at your website - are all the bows in that display rack yours hock:
Jealous :twisted:

I take this as a compliment. 8)
Yes, these are some of my bows.

(sorry if you mentioned this somewhere in the text - my German is horrific)

Such is my English - as you probably noticed. :wink:

The glass scythian is quite vicious but I love the shape of the Indo-Persian.

From the first impression, I got fascinated by the shape of Grozer´s IndoPersian. But I soon learned, that this one is one of the nicest bows to shoot with. Hard to explain why...

Any estimation as to how it would fare against another Grozer bow of 38 lb.

Compared to my old Hungarian Extra I of 36 lb, to an Hungarian TrH of 37 lb (didn´t find this one on his website anymore; it´s an uncovered bow of the Hungarian shape with two layers of fibreglass with one layer of wood in between - a very nice peace of work!) and a modern Hunting Recurve of 36 lb (technically speaking the same fabriaction type as the TRH, but a different shape), the IndoPersian is a little stiffer, but the arrows lose some power within the bow. So you can´t shoot that far with the IndoPersion as with the others.

The farthest possible arrow range would be: Hunting Recurve > Hungarian TRH > Hungarian Extra I > IndoPersian
The easiest draw would be: Hungarian TRH > Hunting Recurve > Hungarian Extra I > IndoPersian

So judging by this comparison, the IndoPersian sound like a bad choice. But the handling counts, too!
Quite funny, but when shooting I get my best results like this:

IndoPersian > Hunting Recurve = Hungarian Extra I > Hungarian TRH

The latter is a nice bow, but very nervous when shooting. The Hunting recurve and Hungarian Extra I are just average, meaning that I get (for my shooting... :? ) very good results with both bows, although they have a totally different character. The best results I´ve got with the IndoPersian - I can´t really tell why - the bow just seems to 'behave' very well in my hands...

I'd be getting it in 60 lb or higher if poss though.

60 lb is the max Grozer seem to offer.

Do you have any pictures of it drawn?

I´m afraid not. It might be a hard piece of work shooting with the bow and shooting pictures at the same time .... that´s when I miss a third hand.

[daryush]

Thanks for the info!

Back on topic: OP, I found this. It doesn't look particularly amazing, but it's A LOT less than any custom leatherworker would offer me.

[Dan D'Silva]

... Excellent. It's not exactly right but it's the closest of anything I've seen on the market.

As per your illustration of the Persepolis reliefs -- which are also my main source -- the curved, stitched side of the Achaemenian gorytos faces up (counter to way the bow curves -- a little strange, as I've noted earlier; presumably the bow ends before the gorytos starts curving). With this horse bow case, it would appear to be the reverse... If one altered the suspension system so the stitched side is facing up, then the bow would sit in the case with its staff up, string down, possibly putting pressure on the string. Does anyone think this would damage the bow?

[fwg]

Does anyone think this would damage the bow?

I don´t think so, because while shooting the bow has to withstand much more things. The relatively smooth inner surface of the quiver shouldn´t harm the string too much.

[daryush]

I don't think the mass of a scythian style horsebow is anywhere near enough to cause any damage like that. String down became very common after the gorytos split into a separate quiver and bow case, from what I can gather, so it can't have been that damaging.

I think perhaps the curve at the bottom end of the Median gorytos from Persepolis was probably to fit nicely round the recurved end of the bow. The bow in the picture of the product I linked you to doesn't have recurved tips. If you have one edge straight, you can simply cut one piece of leather and sew it up on two edges, rather than cutting two pieces and sewing three edges if both edges were curved.

Are you deciding to go for a custom one? One leatherworker offered me $300 - $350 but couldn't complete it because of family reasons. The next one I've contacted is here in the UK and has said she'll do it for £400 - £450. I think mine was a little more pricy because I was having a sheepskin interior and 8 - 9 oz leather outer casing for protection. Plus heavy decoration. It was also the "eastern" style, with arrow tubes instead of one big compartment.

A simple, thinner leather, unlined one would probaby be a lot less, and significantly easier to make.

(I've decided to separate into a separate bow and arrow quiver though in case new bows don't fit. And am totally undecided as to which type of arrow quiver to go for!)

[fwg]

I don't think the mass of a scythian style horsebow is anywhere near enough to cause any damage like that.

I agree. And for a genuine hornbow, this way of transportation might be much better than the other way around. It is much easier to make a new string than to repair a hornbow.

[Dan D'Silva]

I'm thinking on getting the bow and an estimate for a custom gorytos before deciding. The Median style is very simple, but I'm no professional and couldn't guess at the cost.

[daryush]

Just found one more thingie for you:

http://www.szkitabolt.hu/webshop/catalo ... cts_id=453

Again, not particulary scythian/median, but a lot better than the previous one I linked you to

The currency is Hungarian but it works out at about £60 (about $90)

[Robert Vermaat]

Just found one more thingie for you:
http://www.szkitabolt.hu/webshop/catalo ... cts_id=453

Any comments about these bows - useable for 'Roman' reenactment?

[fwg]

Just found one more thingie for you:

http://www.szkitabolt.hu/webshop/catalo ... cts_id=453

Looks like fantasy to me.
I wouldn´t want to walk around with a thing rivetted together like this... :?