Manica project

[Hibernicus]

Had a bit of a revelation a few months ago. Finally to put it to the test..

Robinson depicted manica plates laid out flat. He suggested that it was thigh armor. It certainly looks like it could be from my perspective and we've used it as such.. it works! Not too long ago Dr Bishop suggested it was arm armor. New finds seem to back that up .

Most reconstructions tend to be an isoscoles trapezium

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... id.svg.png

But Robinson does not show the plates laid out like a trapezium

Here's what I did following the pattern in Armour of Imp Rome/Robinson[attachment=1:1jteczoz]<!-- ia1 IMG_1996.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:1jteczoz]

The view is the interior. Next view exterior:[attachment=0:1jteczoz]<!-- ia0 IMG_1998.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:1jteczoz]

[Hibernicus]

The manica on the back of the arm, not the top or inside...[attachment=1:3w3nju37]<!-- ia1 IMG_2001.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:3w3nju37]

The manica twisted to follow the arm as it's rotated[attachment=0:3w3nju37]<!-- ia0 IMG_2002.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:3w3nju37]

I have never been happy with the the way the trapzium shaped manica works..

More work today to complete it .. attach it to a shoulder/torso harness, edge it goat,...

[Hibernicus]

Hope to have more pics today..

BTW, the plates are hammered and then tin plated.

[Caballo]

Interesting! Look forward to more pics.

[Tarbicus]

Have you bent them the right way, Sean?

[Hibernicus]

Jim, assembled flat, then bent them... used a bench mount bending jig...

[Tarbicus]

But after they were assembled flat, were they then bent in the right direction? It'd make a big difference to how the assembled manica is worn.

Not saying you didn't, just asking.

[Hibernicus]

Jim.. ah! ...I get what you're saying.

Yes, to follow the way the right arm twists with an over hand thrust or needs to twist in order to draw the gladius..

[sulla felix]

Hibernicvs,

I had a look at Robinson and I am just not seeing where you got the pattern from? This is Robinson's take, and whilst it is not a perfect isoscoles trapezium, it does not seem anything like the shape you have made either? Am I looking at the wrong thing?

[Matt Lukes]

Sean, sorry- your suggestion here is that you think the manica protects the arm differentially by being rotated? Because quite a lot of reconstructions have been made using a trapezoidal starting shape and they work wonderfully- no troubles. What's more, the open space to the back is actually a logical and important feature I think because it allows the elbow to project slightly when the arm is fully bent so the integral maximum bend of the armor doesn't actually restrict the arm's movement. If the upper portion is rotated around (if I'm understanding what you're suggesting correctly), it inhibits this rather dramatically I'm finding.

And just what width lame are you using there? The real ones from Newstead are about 2.5cm, and an overlap of around 5mm is necessary to prevent gapping.

[Matt Lukes]

It's also vital to remember the artifact is a collection of fragments, some 39 of them- Robinson assembled them to a given number of lames, but there's nothing stated as to how he arrived at the number; he may have just made the maximum number of complete lames he could- which would ignore the possibility that left and right edges put together could have been from separate lames. And of course there could have been more than was found- even the large upper lame is in 6 or perhaps 8 pieces, and bits are clearly missing. It's this incompleteness that makes Robinson's short version somewhat dubious- given the other, more complete artifacts are clearly the arm length shown in sculptural, mosaic and painted depictions. Nowhere is there a guard that only goes to the elbow...

[Magnus]

Best to cover the top of the arm anyway, that way the top and sides are protected from counter-attack. The only opening is at the bottom this way. Be hard to attack from the ground up at the gap in a manica.

[Matt Lukes]

Indeed plus one must always bear in mind that these things were not engineered the modern way- with an eye toward every possible weakness; just look at armour- it's full of gaps and weaknesses and yet it was deemed perfectly acceptable because the flaws were things that might conceivably result in a problem on some rare occasion, but not commonly so. The manica on the forward-facing part of the arm meant maximum protection just like a modern tank's heaviest armor is in front as that's where the real threat comes from.

[A_Volpe]

Wow, very interesting ideas and work, Hibernicus! Keep us posted on developments.

The more I hear and see about this Manica business the more I'm intrigued and want one of my own...