Aitor Alert! Manuballista found!

[Paullus Scipio]

Many thanks, Duncan !! Saved me a lot of looking
Though we are not told the size of engine, this incident proves the point about psychological effects rather well !

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It would seem most unpractical to lug this much hardware around a battlefield and try to fire it out of hand, as any archer would be more mobile and have a higher rate of fire. This type of weapon would IMHO really come into it's own as a mobile artillery piece, firing long range projectiles into approaching troops from a rampart either in a castellum or fortress or from the castle of a marauding liburna.

I think you're probably right, Robert.

I think that is what I said too, far less eloquently mind you!

[Roy]

Caesar's Gallic Wars, 7.25:
A certain Gaul before the gate of the town, who was casting into the fire opposite the turret balls of tallow and fire which were passed along to him, was pierced with a dart on the right side and fell dead. One of those next him stepped over him as he lay, and discharged the same office: when the second man was slain in the same manner by a wound from a cross-bow, a third succeeded him, and a fourth succeeded the third: nor was this post left vacant by the besieged, until, the fire of the mound having been extinguished, and the enemy repulsed in every direction, an end was put to the fighting.

According to Goldsworthy's In the Name of Rome, these were all bolts fired by scorpiones.
I noticed the word scorpione in the Latin text but does it also mention a crossbow/manuballista?
Or is it just a translation error?

[Robert]

Salve Gaius! I should have voiced my agreement, because you did state this as well. We were both surpassed by Coulston, though, who in "The production and distribiution of militairy equipment" states In warefare (Roman) crossbows were most usefull in marine conflict and in mural defence.... He also point at the greater mobility of the archers on the battlefield.
I had a good look at it and a boltsize of 40 centimeters (two span) would seem very believable. This would qualify as the Roman version of the crossbow. These things hit far and hard!!
Using bellybow cocking would greatly increase the rate of fire. I bet a two man crew could get off at lease one bolt every 15 seconds.
The reconstruction is no longer at the Valkhof museum, but perhaps Jasper knows where it went and if there are plans available. I believe it went back to Keulen after the ROMEC exhibition at the Valkhof. As it is a reconstruction, there should be no problem weighing it?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Far less knowledgably though than yourself or coulston, Robert! Was only making an observation!
But, I bet they were good at keeping heads down during a seige too! Especially wit ha few of these laying down a withering rate of fire like you suggest! hock:

[D B Campbell]

According to Goldsworthy's In the Name of Rome, these were all bolts fired by scorpiones. I noticed the word scorpione in the Latin text but does it also mention a crossbow/manuballista? Or is it just a translation error?

It's just your translation (which, I think, is the 1898 version of Greenough et al.).

Handford's Penguin translation (1951) is better: "An arrow from a catapult pierced his right side and he fell dead." Or Edwards' Loeb translation (1966): "He was pierced by a dart from a scorpion in the right side and fell dead".
(Caesar literally says "He was shot by a scorpio in the right side, and fell down dead".)

We know that the Romans referred to the regular arrow-shooting catapult as a scorpio, so there's no reason to assume that it was a small hand-held device -- if it had been, Caesar would surely have mentioned the fact.

[P. Clodius Secundus]

The Xanten machine, on the other hand, was perhaps intended as a 2-span catapult, shooting arrows 0.40m long. It could well have been stand-mounted -- not necessarily a fixed tripod, but a portable prop in case there wasn't a handy rampart to lean it on!

Does anyone know of other evidence related to the tripods (modern generic term) used with catapultae? Particulary for iron-framed ones? My recent tests with the carroballista (see Carrus & Carroballista thread in Re-enactment & Reconstruction) have convinced me that the short braced monopods depicted on Trajan's are not just an artistic convention scaled down to fit the composition. I support this hypothesis three ways...
1. Ergonomics- We found that at "normal" height it is difficult to load and fire the weapon from the cart.
2. Physics- Shorter = stable = accurate. For taller bases the two legged "H" style is much more stable. The bed height of the carrus makes up for the difference and allows max elevation/range plunging fire.
3. Iconography- When in the carts all the frames are shown barely clearing the bed sides. Wall mounted there's no way to tell. Dismounted in the open they are shown on raised cribbing. This would give the best performance, creating a very stable platform that still allows for max range fire. If they we really normal height just "carved" shorter they'd only be useful for anti-aircraft work. :wink:
The biggest question is why do they wait until the 1C to come up with this? Was the carroballista in use before, and Trajan's just happens to be the first reference? Did did the switch to iron frames make it practical?
My results thus far would seem to indicate that weight was not the deciding factor. Was it range? If they were in-swingers with much greater range (any opinions?) that could be the key. Greater range would allow them to deploy and engage from further back in the column and give them much more time to have effect on an advancing enemy. I can cite many modern instances where a a significant advance in a weapon's capabilities leads to a major shift in it's employment.

[Robert]

What we will probably never know, but what I would do when constructing such a cart, is to make drop down sides with hinges holding side to cart. This way, the side facing the enemy could be left raised forming a shield, the other side dropped and allowing acces to cock, load, aim and FIRE. As the ballista can be clearly seem above the sides of the cart, so will the "muzzle" allow uninhibited fire. Just a thought, shoot me if you must :lol:

[P. Clodius Secundus]

Robert,
One of my design drawings of the cart included a hinged tailgate. I had even left the bottom side rails long enough to attach it but I ended up cutting the tabs off. In the absence of any historical evidence I decided to stick as close to Trajan's as possible. It shows them firing from behind the cart directly over the mules. To me this indicates that they were used more for high angle, longer range, area supression. The rate of fire is too slow and the mules too big a target to have them in the front line firing line-of-sight like they did in defensive positions. One change I am considering is cutting off the rear of the bed sides at an angle as seen on the Column of Marcus Aurelius. I want to do more testing with a shortened monopod first though. From what firing we did get to do before the jury-rigged wooden pintle broke and the rains came on Sunday, the straight-from-Trajan's design was quite functional. I can't wait to make a few improvements and try again. Just for the sake of research I may knock together a "dummy gun" and mount with the relative dimensions faithful to Trajan's as well just to proof the design. If it works, and barring any contrary evidence supporting the "tall-monopod" and "H" designs being used with iron-framed engines some folks may want to rethink their mounts. :o

[Robert]

Salve Clodius Secundus!

It would seem strange to fire over the mules, as an elevated firing position would really hamper accuracy and this is just where these engines come into their own. For laying down suppressive fire, a group of archers would be far more useful, as they have somewhat the same range, but not the knock down, shield smashing power of a ballistabolt aimed at chest level. The heavy projectile of a ballista soon succumbs to gravity, greatly lessening it's effective range because of the flatter trajectory.

It's the old discussion on caliber versus speed. Modern rifles sacrifice mass of the projectile for speed and distance. As speed was limited by the mechanics involved, mass caused the destructive penetrating power of the ballista bolt in an equal range situation. The .44 has the greater stopping power, but the .22 with a long barrel and a good charge will kill well over the effective range of a .44. The .50 caliber single shot sniper rifle is probably the exception to the rule, but packs a massive charge. Anyway, this is just an example, guns are REALLY frowned upon in my part of the world, so it's all book wisdom. :roll:

Possibly, the artist took a liberty here, as showing a gun crew in action would be impossible if they were behind raised sides but could be well depicted when standing at the rear of the assembly.

[AuxArcher]

If, however, the artist was working from live models (ie soldiers deploying the weapon) then it is probably a realistic depiction.

[Robert]

The depiction may be and probably is realistic, but that doesn't exclude the possibility of an artistic liberty. The firing positions would be correct in relation to the piece served, but not the actual position of the piece in relation to the cart if you want to show both in the same sculpture.

[AuxArcher]

Salve, Robert. I agree with you, and we will never know, unless we can interview the sculptors.

This is off subject a bit, but I was just studying the cave paintings in Spain and France for a primitive bow project I am working on, and it facinates me to no end how sophisticated ancient art (including the Romans and Greeks) was. It all had to be rediscovered by various cultures. Nothing new under the sun, eh?

Further, I have officially began my interpretation (meaning building it) of the hand held arrow firing torsion weapon (yeah, this one we are talking about). I'll share my progress with all of you as it comes together.

[Robert]

Salve, Dane!

I would certainly consider approuching Xanten ( www.lvr.de ) for data on their find (or a good reference to those that did the reconstruction), or the museum in Keulen for some detailed pictures. Do ask them to provide either a drawing or a foto with a scalebar. Good luck to your manuballista project!

[AuxArcher]

Ave, Robert.

I found this site http://www.apx.de/ and think that is the right place, but my German is frightfully bad. Do you happen to know if they have published the findings of the artifact, or details of the reconstruction?

Arg, to be an American. They say those who speak three languages are trilinqual, those who speak two languages are bilingual, and those who speak one language are Americans.

Do you think you can help?