A legion in India?

[Jona Lendering]

Last week, I met a man who had read a book in which it was stated that one Roman legion had surrendered to the Sassanians, had been sent to the east, had fought itself a way to the Indus valley, and sailed back to Egypt.

I had never heard this and, frankly, do not believe it, even though it is not inherently impossible. Does anyone have any thoughts about the origin of this anecdote? (The man has several times asked my opinion; it is obviously dear to him.)

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Jona

It all sounds very similar to the story of the Legionaries who after the defeat of Crassus by the Parthians somehow ended up in China! This appears in a publication by H. Dubs but is generally regarded now as little more than a story.

However as you say such things are not impossible. The accounts of the mutineers of a Cohort of Uspii and the survivors of the Varus disaster found years later both attest to that but like you I have never heard of this happening in India.

Does your friend know which book this particular event is mentioned?

Graham.

[Jona Lendering]

It all sounds very similar to the story of the Legionaries who after the defeat of Crassus by the Parthians somehow ended up in China! This appears in a publication by H. Dubs but is generally regarded now as little more than a story.

Dubs' book was my first idea too. I read it, many years ago, and it actually impressed me sufficiently to refer to it in one of my books. It's amazing to find a "village of the Romans" in western China at the beginning of our era, but it is not sufficient proof.

Unfortunately, the man who told me about this Indian story, did not remember the title. He had read a lot, and although he appeared a bit credulous, he was no fool.

[M. Demetrius]

Aha! The origin of the Deepeeka company is now revealed! Started as a fabricum from a Roman legion, right? 8)

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

I don't know if it was via this forum or how I got across this online article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4970452.stm

And when looking for this old article I also found now this as well on the BBC site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/une ... 2005.shtml

Jona, maybe your friend is referring to this?

[Jona Lendering]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/unea...2005.shtml
Jona, maybe your friend is referring to this?

Thanks! Columbo would say: "Maybe. Could be. Possible." I will ask him. Anyone else?

[D B Campbell]

I don't know if it was via this forum or how I got across this online article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4970452.stm

I loved this quote: "India had a long fascination for the Romans, going back to Alexander the Great." That would the little-known Roman Alexander the Great? :wink:

[Arminius Primus]

Ave Fratres,

Don't know about a legion in India, but I remember seeing ceramic and bronze Roman style oil lamps in the Thai national museum in the 60s. They were labeled as Roman and came from a variety of sites within Thailand and along the coast. Granted, things of utility have a life of their own and can travel far afield from their makers or original users...at the time, I had been sent to South East Asia, without having much to say about it, thought maybe the lamps owners had been in the same situation,.....made me feel better at least.

Are these still on display?........ has anyone else seen them?

I was sober when I visited the museum..... so don't think I was hallucinating.

Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus aka Al

[Jona Lendering]

That would the little-known Roman Alexander the Great? :wink:

I think I know the explanation of this error. In the languages of Islam (Arabic, Turkish, and Farsi), Greeks, Romans, and Byzantines were all called Rumi, which originally meant "Romans" (cf. the self-identification of the Byzantines as Romans) but often means "westerner". For example, in the Book of Arda Viraz, a Zoroastrian text, Alexander is called a Rumi. This text, and countless other Zoroastrian texts, were brought from Iran to India by the Parsees and appear to have influenced Indian ideas about the ancient cultures of the Mediterranean. (I'd love to know more about that.)

[Praefectusclassis]

Jona, what makes you think that marketing people use Indian ideas for their blurbs? :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

At the risk of repeating myself, again, as usual...... :roll: , I think it was the BBC program I saw a while back about this subject, and it also mentioned the fact that trade had posibly extended right across asia, in one form or another. Good links Medusa!

[ParthianBow]

That would the little-known Roman Alexander the Great? :wink:

I think I know the explanation of this error. In the languages of Islam (Arabic, Turkish, and Farsi), Greeks, Romans, and Byzantines were all called Rumi, which originally meant "Romans" (cf. the self-identification of the Byzantines as Romans) but often means "westerner". For example, in the Book of Arda Viraz, a Zoroastrian text, Alexander is called a Rumi. This text, and countless other Zoroastrian texts, were brought from Iran to India by the Parsees and appear to have influenced Indian ideas about the ancient cultures of the Mediterranean. (I'd love to know more about that.)

Although it's possible that you're right Jona, I think it's more likely that the quote was written in bad journalistic English and meant to say "India had a long fascination for the Romans, going back to the accounts of Alexander the Great's campaigns there." (my italics)
Good thread though - however thin the evidence. I've read all Dubs' manuscripts on the theory, and you can drive a squadron of British war chariots through them. The fact that there's some European DNA in the Chinese people near Li-jien means nothing more than some European travellers passed by once upon a time.Of course the survivors of Carrhae made it to Margiana, and possibly furhter east. Who knows?

Perhaps your acquaintance would like to read The Silver Eagle (shameless self-promotion here :oops: :mrgreen: ), the second book in my trilogy, becuase it does just what he talks about - takes a Roman legion, albeit under Parthian command, to India....

Ben Kane, author of The Forgotten Legion, a novel of Crassus' campaign into Parthia. The sequel, The Silver Eagle, continues the story (into India!) of the prisoners from Carrhae...

[Jona Lendering]

Perhaps your acquaintance would like to read The Silver Eagle (shameless self-promotion here :oops: :mrgreen: ), the second book in my trilogy, becuase it does just what he talks about - takes a Roman legion, albeit under Parthian command, to India....

Maybe he has heard about your book? I will ask him.

[Narukami]

The statement about the Romans and Alexander makes perfect sense if taken in context.

"India had a long fascination for the Romans, going back to Alexander the Great," Dr Tomber said.

"Alexander was a huge model for succeeding Roman emperors, and the fact that he had been in India and brought back tales of the fantastic things, the people and products there, heightened the Roman desire to continue that association.

As the television Livia said to her grandson Claudius in response to his gift to her of an Indian vase, "Its a pity we never got that far -- so many fine things we could have picked up cheap."

:roll:

Narukami

[Gäiten]

The Sassanians captured ten of thousands Romans in their battles against them. Especially after the disaster at Edessa in 260AD.
We were told that many of them were used for constructing streets, bridges and more. Why not some fighting for the Sassanian king Shapur I? The Sassanians of used captured warriors for their own puposes, sending them to far borders away from their own cultural background.

Shapur I campaigned after his 3rd Roman campaign agains the Kushans and expanded Sassanian overlordship till India.