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Quote:Good points Sergey -- indeed film is art, and as such you are quite right that the artist (director, writer, etc.) should push the boundaries of the art form. Tarantino's new film will certainly do that.)
However...
I think this is why we so admire the films of Kurosawa, or Kubrick or Scorsese, and look askance at films like 10,000 BC or 300 (a triumph of design though the latter may have been).
Just my random thoughts.
:wink:
Narukami
Completely agree with you and I'm big fan of Kurosawa.
But of course, if you would see documentary "II World War in colours" - Spielberg and Kubrik couldn't compete with it.
But my point is - let's treasure the new thinhs that was done by the directors.
As example, old Hollywwod film "Scarlet Empress" about Catherine the Great is complete madness from the point of view of accuracy - it's stupid fantasy about Russia with much more stupid mistakes than you are mentioning and you could suppose - as example menoras from sinagogue in orthodox church - still von Sternberg great director. There's the vision.
Of course, each viewer see mistakes in films about his own country. But as example in Russia there's film "1612" about Trouble time - and they pained much attention to details - anyway final result is stupid fantasy.
As to Apocalypto - I thonk it's the film about each dying empire - that's why for me these detailes are not so important. I could say: "I believe" - watching it - that's important. If wrong detailes are breaking that feeling - that's bad.
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Quote:Apocalypto was nothing more that a remake (almost scene for scene) of another old Hollywood staple The Naked Prey, which is no defense of that film.
Ah, but "The Naked Prey" was based on an incident in the life of the mountain man John Colter( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Colter ), so by moving it back to a Native American setting it becomes more accurate! (leaving it only extremely innacurate  )
Quote:Russia there's film "1612" about Trouble time
They appear to have valued propaganda value over historical accuracy. Why did all of those Polish actors do this movie???
Quote:"10 000 years B.C. hystoric film?"
Forget history, what about biology? How could the animators not know that elephants/Mammoths don't gallop like horses!
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Odd choice of movies, seems like several were on the list for flimsy reasons and several missed the list that should have been there. As someone else pointed out the author really has a disliking of Mel Gibson.
I have no problem with 300 not being there, the movie is a campfire story being told by one Spartan to pump up his fellows before battle.
Someone suggested a 10 best historical movies of all time. I say we see what we can put together. While far from perfect and based off the novel "Killer Angels" I suggest GETTYSBURG deserves to be on the list for good historical movies.
Anyone want to add to the list?
Timothy Hanna
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Quote:
Quote:Russia there's film "1612" about Trouble time
They appear to have valued propaganda value over historical accuracy. Why did all of those Polish actors do this movie???
I think that due to it's fantasy value - main heros are speaking in modern kids slang- it's no political propganda at all (film is completely forgotten by now) - real history were much more tragic and bloody. By the way, you could see Russian actors playing "evil" Russians in Hollywood films - why can't Polish actors play in Russian film? It's only actor work. And relations between Russia and Poland in cultural sphere are much more sophisticated than political (we are the Slavs anyways) - because there are many Polish films (including historical) and actors which are hugely popular in Russia ("Pharao", "The Flood" ("Potop"), Polish comedies etc.) and the same thing exists in Poland. Before "1612" there were Polish historical blockbuster "By the Fire and Sword" (Ogniom i Mechem) - highly recommending - with Russian actor playing "the bad" cossac who became after that very popular in Poland - and so Polish actor Jebrovsky who played good main hero in "By the Fire and Sword" played "bad" Polish invader in "1612".
So it was a kind of cultural inter-change
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Quote:So it was a kind of cultural inter-change
You are right of course. I am just still embittered over Sergei Kovalyov's report.
Along the lines of what you wrote, Daniel Olbrychski usually appears as a Soviet KGB agent in US films.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Quote:Quote:So it was a kind of cultural inter-change
Along the lines of what you wrote, Daniel Olbrychski usually appears as a Soviet KGB agent in US films.
Daniel Olbrychski - genious actor, peer to Al Pacino or De Niro, he could play anything. Sad that in the USA they could give him only such roles :? I think that sword fighting under the rain scene from "Flood" - one of the best of such scenes in cinema at all.
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I wonder what they are going to say when this show will be aired
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHxn8mTpAJU
(seems they have recycled the helmets from '300')
--- Marcus F. ---
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Quote:... (seems they have recycled the helmets from '300')
That's not all, by the looks of it. (Is it the same production team, maybe?)
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Quote:That's not all, by the looks of it. (Is it the same production team, maybe?)
And Xena- naked!
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Quote:I wonder what they are going to say when this show will be aired
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHxn8mTpAJU
(seems they have recycled the helmets from '300')
I think we started a thread for this series already (in References & Reviews perhaps?) and if not we no doubt will.
The producers said up front (more than a year ago) that their Spartacus series would have little in common with the Kirk Douglas film but rather follow the style of 300 -- only more so.
The trailer does not give me much hope that the actual series will have any redeeming qualities.
Yes, as we have said here many times before, there will be those who see this new series and be so inspired that they seek out more information about ancient Rome. Those few we can help steer towards sources of accurate information and many will discover that the facts of ancient Rome are far more fascinating than the Hollywood fiction.
However...
We also know that the vast majority will watch this and think themselves now well informed and well versed in the history of ancient Rome, gladiators, and the Slave Revolt.
Yes, the Kubrick film has its problems no doubt about it. Like the HBO Rome series there is the compression of time and combining of historical persons into single characters. And the armor ... ah the armor.. That being said, a series like this new one from Starz makes the HBO series seem like the very epitome of historical accuracy.
Shows like this make one appreciate all the more what Robert Graves accomplished with his books I, Claudius and Claudius The God (and also what the BBC accomplished adapting his books to television). Yes, Graves did make some assumptions, some extrapolations, some educated guesses, but all within the realm of not only the possible but the probable. No armored rhinos, no hand grenades, no mask wearing teeth sharpened ninja trained Immortals (though they would have been perfect in a Space Opera like Star Wars).
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this new Starz series will be an historical feast. Perhaps we will learn new facts about Spartacus and the Slave Revolt, about gladiators, about Crassus, Caesar, et.al. But I doubt it.
Another triumph for Hollywood Romans.
 hock: :oops: :twisted: :? roll:  :| wink:
Narukami
David Reinke
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Quote:The trailer does not give me much hope that the actual series will have any redeeming qualities.
Xena naked (apparently)?
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:oops:
Well, that's true -- I will grant you that.
But besides the roads, viticulture, aqueducts, law & order, peace and Xena naked... What have the Romans ever done for us?
:?
Narukami
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So......i shouldn't scrap my entire well researched kit for something from this series?! DAMN and I was all excited to run around with a scutum, boxer briefs, and a red superman cape............
Quintus Licinius Aquila
aka. Kevin Williams
Optio Leg X E V
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Quote:But besides the roads, viticulture, aqueducts, law & order, peace and Xena naked... What have the Romans ever done for us?
Because I clicked on the suggested video on the right of the trailer page, I not only know that Xena will be naked, though weaing a false pubic hair piece, but that the show will delve deep into Saphic delights. Aqueducts? Pax Romana? Everyone know that were it not for pornography there would be no moving pictures, video tapes, or internet- all of which only survived to become popular based on their porn revenues. Thus debauchery and the orgy is Rome's most enduring legacy. Silly Christians :wink:
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Any film that has Lucy Lawless naked is by definition a good film.
Pecunia non olet
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