The word "Iliad"

[Jona Lendering]

Homer will have named his epic something like "the wrath of Achilles" or "the will of Zeus", and classical authors usually write that "Homer says" or "the Poet says". But who started to call the Iliad the Iliad?

I have no idea where to start looking. The existence of titles like Odyssey and Argonautica suggest that one-word book titles already existed in the age of Alexandrine scholarship. But that's the only suggestion I can make. Anyone else, with a better classical education?

(Personal note: I think the misleading title -the Iliad is not about Ilion, but about the wrath of Achilles- is an improvement. Book titles should not explain what the book is about. It's up to the reader to decide. The name of the Rose, Doktor Faustus, and The Three Musketeers leave the reader more room for interpretation and joy than Hamlet, Prince of Denmark or A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.)

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Book titles existed before hellenistic times,for example Herodotus',Thucydides' and Xenophon's works.
I don't find any link between Iliad and Achilles,other than that Achlles fought and died there.
Khaire
Giannis

[john m roberts]

I believe "Iliad" translates, roughly, as "What happened at Ilium."

[Jona Lendering]

I believe "Iliad" translates, roughly, as "What happened at Ilium."

Yep; but that's misleading. The real story of that ten year war was told in the Cypria and the Iliupersis, which are lost. The story of those 51 days described by Homer ought to have been called something like the Achilleis or perhaps Menias. The poet itself calls it "the wrath of Achilles". Herodotus quotes it as Iliad (Histories 2.116), so at that moment, it already had received its present name. But Herodotus assumes that everybody knows the book by this, strange, name. But why? Who invented this name?

(Note: The fact that it is not mentioned earlier, may not mean anything; all literature was, before Herodotus, poetry, and the word Ilias appears to be a tribrach, which makes it ill-suited for use in poems. But I may be wrong about this; the a may be long - I am no specialist in ancient prosody.)

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

The ten-year-war was not exactly a siege of Ilion nor battles between Achaeans and Trojans,so story of the whole war may had nothing to do with "Ilion" itself. Achilles,for instance,was supposed to have besieged many other cities,as would other heros. So the word Iliad would suit what happened in front of the plains of Ilion,even if not all the events are present.
Another explanation woud be that the other poems were much inferior,so the story of Homer concerning it was the one that atually survived in tradition and was given the universal name.
I also believe that it's impossible to guess when the name was given,if it's before Herodotus.
Khaire
Giannis

[Jona Lendering]

So the word Iliad would suit what happened in front of the plains of Ilion,

It would, therefore, be an excellent name for the Epic Cycle as a whole (i.e., Cypria, the-poem-inaptly-called-Iliad, Aethiopis, Little Iliad and Ilioupersis), but it's not a good name for a poem about just one small episode.

Another explanation woud be that the other poems were much inferior,so the story of Homer concerning it was the one that atually survived in tradition and was given the universal name.

It may indeed have been something like that; the name Little Iliad may be indicative that this is what indeed happened.

I also believe that it's impossible to guess when the name was given

I'm more optimistic. Given the fact that the Homeric Question has been one of the most important problems of classical studies, I would be surprised if there were no theories. They may be like you propose - the poem by Homer getting the name of the complete cycle. But I would like to know more about it.

[Sean Manning]

My only suggestion would be to look up a book on early commentators on Homer. It will at least give an idea of how early writers referred to the Iliad and Odyssey. I wouldn't be surprised if the names are first attested in -III at Alexandria.

Herodotus and Thucydides don't seem to have bothered with titles, but what about the Athenian playwrights? If they named their plays, then we'd know that some Greeks refered to works by name by then. Edit: At the start of Frogs 'Dionysios' speaks of reading "Andromeda" so it looks like plays had names in -V. No idea about Homer though ...

[Felix]

If I may add a comment, modern titles can be equally misleading. Remarque's book is known as "All Quiet on the Western Front"; but it deals only with a very small part of the Western Front, and a very limited perspective of WW I. The Iliad might (perhaps?) be construed as "something that happened at Ilion", rather than "everything that happened at Ilion".

[Jona Lendering]

The Iliad might (perhaps?) be construed as "something that happened at Ilion", rather than "everything that happened at Ilion".

Perhaps, yes, although the parallels (Thebais, Aeneis, Argonautica, Nostoi) are all of the everything type. Yet, it is possible.

[D B Campbell]

I believe -- and I can't remember the basis for this -- that the disparate "works" of Homer (which existed as self-contained units, like "The Catalogue of Ships" or "The Death of Patroclus") were assembled at Athens in the time of Peisistratus. They perhaps acquired the titles Iliad and Odyssey at that stage. (It might be Plato who records this? :? )

Second thought: Cicero (de Oratore 3.34.137) says: "Peisistratus is said to have been the first to arrange in their present order the books of Homer that were previously scattered". Is it significant that Cicero doesn't name the Iliad and Odyssey?

[Jona Lendering]

I believe -- and I can't remember the basis for this -- that the disparate "works" of Homer (which existed as self-contained units, like "The Catalogue of Ships" or "The Death of Patroclus") were assembled at Athens in the time of Peisistratus. They perhaps acquired the titles Iliad and Odyssey at that stage. (It might be Plato who records this? :? )

Second thought: Cicero (de Oratore 3.34.137) says: "Peisistratus is said to have been the first to arrange in their present order the books of Homer that were previously scattered". Is it significant that Cicero doesn't name the Iliad and Odyssey?

Good point; and I know that for one part of the Epic Cycle (either the Cypria or the Aethiopis), classicists claim they can see sixth-century Greek in it.

[hoplite14gr]

sometimes it is HILIAD or JILIAD in medieval texts.
In Greek once it had a special sign likie this "(" before th I.
In Doric dialect it had phonetic value J (J = Y as in German)
In Achaic dialect it had phonetic value W (W = V as in German)
Clay tablets from Pylos talk about "WILOUSA"
Kind regards

[PMBardunias]

I believe -- and I can't remember the basis for this -- that the disparate "works" of Homer (which existed as self-contained units, like "The Catalogue of Ships" or "The Death of Patroclus") were assembled at Athens in the time of Peisistratus. They perhaps acquired the titles Iliad and Odyssey at that stage. (It might be Plato who records this? )

I came across this very old paper a while back when looking into the date of the Illiad, it might be interesting in the context of this discussion:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr= ... le&f=false

[D B Campbell]

Interesting link, Paul. On p.3, Mr Paley claims that Herodotus names the Iliad, but I believe he is mistaken.

However, it has confirmed one thing -- namely, Aristotle knew the names Ilias (not Iliad) and Odysseia: e.g. Poetics 1459b.

[Jona Lendering]

On p.3, Mr Paley claims that Herodotus names the Iliad, but I believe he is mistaken.

Herodotus used the name "Iliad" in Histories 2.116.