Project: from homo computeris to Olympic Athlete

[Invictus_Thrax]

Hello this is a project I'm starting. I'm a 24 year old guy from Belgium, a little bit overweight and in average sport condition.
For my job I sit daily 8 hours for my computer and 2 times a week I train in my gladiator school.
After doing research about eating habits and training methods from gladiators and Ancient Olympic athletes
I started my own project called 'from overweight to Olympic'. For 4 months (to start with) I will take such an ancient diet inclusive training methods.
I also got a medic who will periodic conduct tests on me to spot the effect of these methods on my body and the condition of my health.
For the dutch understanding of us they can follow the course on [url:2vqg22u9]http://www.bloggen.be/vanmollignaarolympisch[/url]

Also if you got any good recepts or training tips I can always use those. Further I'm going to try to keep this subject on RAT here also uptodate.
Monday 31/8 is kickoff day...

Salve!

[Jona Lendering]

That's quite interesting. But what is the diet and the training program exactly? I might try to copy you. (I just learned that my serious overweight is related to DSPS; it is something different, but I am seriously interested in your program.)

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

Hey, great idea

although I remember a documentary (which name I can't recall, alas) about gladiators, where it was said, that these guys actually were a little bit overweight, because of the "protective" function of body fat. :? ..I can't assess that, but the docu seemed well researched to me. Maybe someone on here remembers the name of the programme

In case you don't already know, the gladiator diet (according to this docu) is supposed to have consisted mainly of three things: barley and white beans, each with linseed oil ...Bon appétit! :? )

anyways, I wish you luck with your project

p.s. don't forget to post pics

[jvrjenivs]

Indeed I share the opinion that gladiators in ancient times didn't have the athlete body's as modern sporters tents to have. Doesn't say it always good to lose some weight when you're a little bit overweight, as it will surely improve your life.

[Invictus_Thrax]

Well from what i've read etc gladiators and athletes diet varied from time and region througout history. Often because it was thought by doctores who often had their own way to succes.
Mainly i'm going to eat brown selfbaked bread, vegetables, fruit, one certain piece of meat (ancients believed you gained the strength of the animal you ate eg eating a bull to gain the bulls strength), cheese, water, a little bit red wine (not to much but it's good for the veigns), oliveoil,... and banning modern inventions out of my life my daily cans! of coffee, cola and other drinks of that kind, fast-food,...

Further I'm be doing 1000 sit ups and push ups a day and I will dead lift a stone amfora for 100 times a day. That is what a modern mma fighter does, except he uses weights instead of amforas and natural stones.
I totally lack a gym but those elements ancients used to train with, I do have in my backgarden.

It can be that I mislead you all a bit with information, it's perhaps not historical correct for gladiators, but i'll start eating for 4 months what ancients gladiators or athletes could eat and do exercises with stuff they used to train with to see the effects on my body and share with others things I notice

[Medicus matt]

Well from what i've read etc gladiators and athletes diet varied from time and region througout history. Often because it was thought by doctores who often had their own way to succes.
Mainly i'm going to eat brown selfbaked bread, vegetables, fruit, one certain piece of meat (ancients believed you gained the strength of the animal you ate eg eating a bull to gain the bulls strength), cheese, water, a little bit red wine (not to much but it's good for the veigns), oliveoil,... and banning modern inventions out of my life my daily cans! of coffee, cola and other drinks of that kind, fast-food,...

Further I'm be doing 1000 sit ups and push ups a day and I will dead lift a stone amfora for 100 times a day. That is what a modern mma fighter does, except he uses weights instead of amforas and natural stones.
I totally lack a gym but those elements ancients used to train with, I do have in my backgarden.

It can be that I mislead you all a bit with information, it's perhaps not historical correct for gladiators, but i'll start eating for 4 months what ancients gladiators or athletes could eat and do exercises with stuff they used to train with to see the effects on my body and share with others things I notice

Nothing there that's going to really help improve your heart rate or burn off much fat. You need some Cardio vascular stuff in there as well, otherwise all you're doing is increasing muscle mass in your abdomen, arms and chest, not improving your fitness.

I found that cycling was best for me when it came to burning off fat; not so hard on the joints as running. Just three - five miles a day in the morning and a change in diet saw me loose 3 stone in weight over 5 months.

Good luck with it but don't do too much too quickly. Build up slowly and give your body time to recover between sessions. You certainly don't want to be doing the same exercises every day. Do your weight stuff and CV stuff on alternate days and have at least one day a week with nothing.

Who has TIME to do 1000 sit ups and push ups?

[jvrjenivs]

If you want to improve your research and include Roman citizens (from all layers of the cities society) and their sport performances, I would recommend you the following reading: Patrick Gouw - Het sportieve leven van de Romeinen. (ISBN:978-90-8773-006-2; printed on demand)

[Polinik]

Hi!
Ok.Let's start this way,so you know who is giving you advice.
I am Aleksandar Nikic, soon to be graduate from Faculty of Physical Education, and amateur(don't earn money but sometimes compete) bodybuilder.
First,there are few things you need to consider. Ancients had different way of life,they were born and died on much healthier place(Earth),and hardened their whole body under much harder way of life,their intestines were not so gentle as ours..Their metabolism,their blood,their intestines were used to things ours today are not. In one word they were more superior health examples than we are.We are very spoiled by today way of life. The point,using diet that worked for ancient men may not be a good idea,because you could face diarrhea, other stomach problems etc..May not,but should exercise caution.

Concerning diet..I think we all agree ancient gladiators,or any other warriors were strong,force comes from size(80% of it being bone and muscle), muscle size comes from protein,and protein ONLY.And protein means meat! So only soup or vegan/carbohydrate based diet for any sportsman based on strength is impossible. The same goes for gladiators, warriors etc.. And why not eating sheep or pork or beef when it was way more accessible than today.
Concerning fat//Of course they had some,less or more fat.It is very VERY hard even for bodybuilder with 90-100-110 kg today to get rid of fat,with all knowledge and technology, not to mention ancients. So six pack gladiators,or six pack Spartans were highly unlikely to be seen.

Your goal- it is tricky.And 80% of it happens in kitchen.Trust me...To get rid of fat you need to burn more calories than you take.And cardio exercise is the only way you will trick your body to use fat as fuel.REMEMBER there is no such thing as selective fat loss,for example you won't loose fat from stomach if you do situps..ONLY cardio.
Search for fat burning HR zone. And you need to speed up you metabolism by having 5-6 smaller meals (all having protein,and fibers,and ONLY first two or three having carbs).
See some bodybuilding forums for tips on fat loss etc.They are the best in this.

Running in relatively slow pace (see fat burning hr zone),or treadmill or bike are a good way to start..

I hope I helped you,although this is a huge thing to explain in one post.Especially in English for me :oops:

All best

[Nathan Ross]

Would this thread not be better placed in 'Combat Sports'? Lots of gladiator enthusiasts over there!

I think we all agree ancient gladiators,or any other warriors were strong,force comes from size(80% of it being bone and muscle), muscle size comes from protein,and protein ONLY.And protein means meat! So only soup or vegan/carbohydrate based diet for any sportsman based on strength is impossible. The same goes for gladiators, warriors etc..

Problem is, the Roman army traditionally had an almost vegetarian diet, based on beans IIRC. Isn't there an account of a legion once threatening mutiny when lack of supplies forced a temporary switch to meat rations? (a reference would be good here, I know! :? )

As for gladiators' diets, this article present some fairly reliable-sounding research (don't know what 'the oral history' refers to though!):

Roman gladiators were fat vegetarians

Robert Koch
Agençe France-Presse
Monday, 5 April 2004

Roman gladiators were overweight vegetarians and not the muscle-bound men protrayed by actors like Russell Crowe, anthropologists say. Austrian scientists analysed the skeletons of two different types of gladiators, the myrmillos and retiariae, found at the ancient site of Ephesus, near Selsuk in Turkey.

"Tests performed on bits of bone taken from the skeletons of some 70 gladiators buried at Ephesus seem to prove that they ate mainly barley, beans and dried fruit," said Dr Karl Grossschmidt, who took part in the study by the Austrian Archaeological Institute "This diet, which has been mentioned in the oral history, is rather sad but it gave the gladiators a lot of strength even if it made them fat," said Grossschmidt who is a member of the University of Vienna's Institute of Histology and Embryology.

The Austrian palaeoanthropologists relied on a method known as elementary microanalysis that allows scientists to determine what a human being ate during his or her lifetime. With the help of a sonar, they could establish the chemical concentrations inside cells in the bone samples taken from the skeletons at Ephesus. From this, they could deduce how much meat, fish, grains and fruit made up the diet of the Roman fighting machines.

A balanced diet of meat and vegetables leaves equal amounts of zinc and strontium in the cells, while a mainly vegetarian diet would leave high levels of strontium and little zinc, Grossschmidt said. Fabian Kanz, from the university's department of analytical chemistry, said the gladiators' bone density gave us clues to how they lived. "The bone density here was higher than usual, as is the case with modern athletes," he said.

This line of testing allowed the scientists to debunk another myth, that gladiators wore strappy Sparticus sandals in the arena. "The bone density is particularly high in samples taken from the feet, which would suggest that the gladiators fought with their bare feet in sand," Kanz said.

He believed that because some gladiators fought with little more than their bare hands, they could have "cultivated layers of fat to protect their vital organs from the cutting blows of their opponents". "It seems that the gladiators tried to put on some weight before their battles," Kanz said. "But this does not mean that they did not work hard to lose it again once they stepped out of the ring," he added.

Source: [url:14dpzs3t]http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_1081439.htm[/url]

I remember reading somewhere that gladiators traditionally ate raw garlic as well - this might be one of those myths, however :wink: (It was in a Stephen Saylor novel, come to think of it, although he's usually pretty accurate and presumably got it from a reputable source...)

- Nathan

[D B Campbell]

Problem is, the Roman army traditionally had an almost vegetarian diet, based on beans IIRC. Isn't there an account of a legion once threatening mutiny when lack of supplies forced a temporary switch to meat rations? (a reference would be good here, I know! :? )

This idea is usually overstated. Roman soldiers seem to have enjoyed a fairly balanced diet. Animal bones are often found on Roman fort sites, and there are many references to Roman armies eating meat. You are probably thinking of Lucullus' army at the siege of Intercatia, where they were forced to eat unfamiliar types of meat (App., Hisp. 54).

[Nathan Ross]

You are probably thinking of Lucullus' army at the siege of Intercatia, where they were forced to eat unfamiliar types of meat

Actually I think I was misremembering this one, by Caesar:

...the army was distressed by the greatest want of corn... to such a degree, that for several days the soldiers were without corn, and satisfied their extreme hunger with cattle driven from the remote villages; yet no language was heard from them unworthy of the majesty of the Roman people and their former victories.
Gallic War, VII,17

And actually the point was that they weren't being at all mutinous at the prospect of eating beef all day! There's also the episode in Tacitus' Annals in which Corbulo's army "exhausted by short supplies and hardships, [were] compelled... to stave off hunger solely by the flesh of cattle"

While hunting down these references, however, I came across more than enough to convince me that the 'vegetarian Roman army' is something of a long-standing myth! So :oops:

Jonathan Roth (The Logistics of the Roman Army at War) cites Plutarch's remark that Cato the Younger, 'inclined to vegetarianism', ate meat 'to strengthen his body for military service'. To clarify my original point a bit then, while Roman soldiers (and gladiators?) did eat meat, they don't seem to have eaten massive amounts of it (Roth suggests a half a pound a day as the average ration, half that of a modern soldier) - Polinik's point about meat being essential for strength might be overstating the case a bit.

Veering off topic slightly, I remember reading an account by a 19th century British naval officer, who remarked that of all the various peoples he had encountered in his travels of the world, the strongest physically were Chinese coolies and Indian dock workers, both of whom lived entirely on a diet of vegetables and rice!

- Nathan

[D B Campbell]

... Polinik's point about meat being essential for strength might be overstating the case a bit.

To be fair to our Russian (?) friend, the point he was making is that, in order to build muscle, meat (or protein) is essential. As he probably well knows, muscle mass is not always synonymous with strength.

[Polinik]

@ Nathan Ross
Good text.Though I don't know who actually finds Mr.R.Crowe a muscle buff :wink:

And yes, i maybe overstating the meat thing, but the vegetarian diet,certainly even more exaggerated, without meat,fish or cheese has no real back up with anyone who knows even a bit about sport and nutrition required for strenuous activity like fighting to death.

@everyone

To simplify this topic as much as possible.And I don't speak as a person interested in Roman history(which I am not), but as a person who was Greek-Roman wrestler for 13 years,and now lives and will live from building and/or shaping and/or conditioning bodies. As I have not that good English vocabulary to engage in a discussion about physiology,sport medicine etc, i will say this:

Vegetarian gladiator(I don't think parallel can be made with regular Roman soldier) is a myth, every person of my profession will say that.
It makes sense that a gladiator had fat,a lot of it,i did read about it after all.Simple carbs are cheaper,can be eaten in tens of kg-s, do provide energy for a fight,and fat. Fat is useful,it does provide a cushion and it protects THE MUSCLE..The only way to produce muscle,and sure you needed it because IT WAS NOT SUMO WRESTLING, was by eating protein.(Don't make me get into "Why muscle is needed story").The muscle was present, I did watch documentary about bones of gladiators and deep tendon impressions on them (big muscle leaves big impressio lig.) End of story.Lack of protein, catabolic process etc is something no fighter wants to have.Good body needs balanced diet,big body more food/calories,little body (Chinese) less. You also need minerals but that was taken extra like today suplements. I read it also.
I would DIE in ring,or broken in half if I had no muscle,and beans alone wont make a lot of it(unfortunately)...I am now 182cm, 102kg, with 18%fat (it's a lot) :oops: , and I eat 800gr of meat, 20-25eggs, 1/3 kg cheese just for protein (daily of course).Not to mention tones of carbs and fibers. Even if we change my muscle to fat ratio to that of gladiator(more fat) the picture would not be that much different,trust me. It can not be done without protein, and you can not fight without muscle.

@D B Campbell
I know what are you going for. But as my language barrier kicks in I think this link can do more help than me, and can be translated into point about gladiators as well.

http://www.faqs.org/sports-science/Mo-P ... ength.html

And no, I am not Russian.

Sorry for long post.

All best

[D B Campbell]

... I remember a documentary (which name I can't recall, alas) about gladiators, where it was said, that these guys actually were a little bit overweight, because of the "protective" function of body fat. :?

The documentary was based on this research, as far as I recall.

[Olaf]

Actually there is little iconographic evidence for overweight Gladiators.
The Borghese Mosaic is the most exaggerated in this regards but there are numerous statues, reliefs and mosaics that show well defined musculature and even "slim" build gladiators.
Refferenced by Junkelmann Galen wrote that the diet of Gladiators under his medical care consisted of barley and beanporridge, bread, sheepcheese, pork and beef.
As a means to treat wounds to the inner organs a potion of drained boneash was administered.

Concerning training methods I would also advise more cardio to the original poster.
Running was certainly one of the mainstays of Gladiatorial and Athletic training.
Also a good cardio workout is working at the phalus in mock combat.
Here the Romans already trained endurance and technique like the modern boxing or other martial arts use punching bags.