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Spartan Mora regiments at Battle of Plataea
#23
Quote: Paralus wrote:
Quote:Thuc. 4.8.1
On the return of the Peloponnesians from Attica the Spartans themselves and the nearest of the Perioeci at once set out for Pylos, the other Lacedaemonians following more slowly as they had just come in from another campaign...

Clearly Pereoici were taken with "the Spartans themselves". Thucydides later draws a distinction between heolt "batmen" and the other hoplites caught with the homoioi on the island

This is very doubtful to say the least. Despite Toynbee's hypothesis that one of the 'lochoi' in the 'Mora' was of 'perioikoi', there are many good reasons for thinking that they did not serve in 'Spartan' units- the six 'Morai'. As I pointed out previously, there is no mention of them in connection with Sphacteria. The quote from Thucydides you refer to is in connection with Pylos, captured by the Athenians and under siege by the Lakedaemonians.

Now there’s a baldly stated contrary view! Let’s see, taking the respondent’s advice to more closely read Thucydides…
  • * This is very doubtful to say the least - Not at all! (you'd expect nothing less)
    * The quote from Thucydides you refer to is in connection with Pylos - Wrong I'm afraid.
    * As I pointed out previously, there is no mention of them in connection with Sphacteria - Not direct - there never is.

The text clearly states that the “Spartans themselves and the nearest of the Perioeci” set out at once for Pylos. These are those not already abroad in Attica (who’ve just returned and are to follow later). There seems nothing doubtful about the presence of perioeci in this initial force.

Having departed in a hurry they arrive and immediately make plans to invest Pylos by both land and sea (4.8.1.4). At the same time they plan to block the harbour entrances with ships (when they arrive) and, in the “meanwhile, fearing that the enemy might make use of the island to operate against them, carried over some heavy infantry thither, stationing others along the coast”. Having determined this course of action they then select “from all the lochoi” the companies to send to the Island.

This, one should note, was before any attack had been mounted upon Pylos by the Spartans. It is, therefore, a reasonable assumption that perioeci were a part of those initial heavy infantry (420) that had been sent across or any others that were to follow.

Quote: That all the prisoners were 'Spartans' if not 'Homioi' is implied by the extreme anxiety of Sparta to get them back. Furthermore, the garrison numbered "420 Hoplites with Helots to attend on them" (Thuc IV.8.9 and IV.16.1 describing their rations). 'Perioikoi' did not have Helots, so far as we know.

The measures taken by Sparta to retrieve the surviving 120 “officer” class men indicates the fragility of homoioi numbers.

The number of helots is not recorded. It is certain that the detailed numbers (the 120 of the “officer class”) found its way to Thucydides after they had been imprisoned in Athens. Whilst he then knew the numbers of the survivors his numbers (or their breakdown) for the original force were simply a total (Thucydides not having the component numbers).
Paralus|Michael Park

Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους

Wicked men, you are sinning against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander!

Academia.edu
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Re: Spartan Mora regiments at Battle of Plataea - by Paralus - 10-27-2009, 09:14 AM

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