Spartan Mora regiments at Battle of Plataea

[Paralus]

....I was speaking militarily, as I had hoped I made clear - while Spartan losses may have been heavier ( "almost a thousand" to probably "300" on the Theban side), and they withdrew from the field - we need not read too much into Diodorus' and Plutarch's "fled" and Diodorus' "not less than 4,000 Lacedaemonians fell" as typical exaggeration/spin from a Theban viewpoint ( and Xenophon, of course, writes from a pro-Spartan viewpoint).

What is clear from all sources is that:
*The Spartans withdrew behind the ditch of their camp, and reformed with many wishing to renew the battle and recover the dead, rather than formally concede the battle and request their dead under a truce (though they ultimately did this)
* The Thebans did not pursue them
* Hearing that Spartan re-inforcements were on the way ( Prince Archidamus with the other two Morai and allies from Sparta), the Thebans allowed the Spartans to depart unmolested ( Epaminondas gave the famous excuse that he would rather fight the next battle in Lacedaemon than in Boeotia - indicating that he realised that the battle had not been decisive and had been a 'Pyrrhic' victory, though Boeotia was "saved" - a 'bloody draw' was sufficient to end the Lacedaemonian invasion. He knew the War would continue, as it did)
* The Spartan Army was not destroyed, and continued operations, gaining some measure of revenge at second Mantinea with the death of Epaminondas (362 BC) - another 'bloody draw' .

No wonder you have named yourself “Xenophon” elsewhere: you are just as excusatory of the Spartans. I’m surprised you failed to mention the fact that the Spartan king got his senior officers pie-eyed before lunch!

You may paint Leuktra as you wish. History records it – as did the Greeks at the time – as major defeat. Your first * point does you in: the Spartans retired behind a ditch?! Why? Because they had been pushed from the field and were in headlong retreat. To make it simple: they’d lost the battle all ends up. The terribly excusatory Xenophon describes your “ditch of their camp” as a “trench which chanced to be in front of their camp”. Yes, righto then…

Of course Epaminondas wanted the next battle in Lacedaemon: the Thebans had fought quite enough on their own territory and, as history would prove, the Spartans were in no position to stop him from taking the fight to Sparta.

Your Pollyanna view of Leuktra fails – utterly – to take into account the state of the Peloponnesian League at this time. Not only did the Theban refused right not take part in the battle, nor did the Spartan left. This part of the League army – composed of the allies – stood back and near applauded the Spartan rout. Xenophon is at his understated best when he records that “the allies were one and all without heart for fighting, while some of them were not even displeased at what had taken place”. Not displeased indeed.

Epaminondas – as he would prove – well knew the weakness of his adversary.

You might paint it as a “bloody draw”. That, in my view, is incorrect: your view is myopically Spartan I’d suggest. The “tearless battle” of the following year shows just how badly Sparta had been defeated. Petty border confrontations become the equivalent of Plataea.

PS: I really do wish you'd stick to "quoting" and replying rather than quoting and inserting (coloured or not) "Old Man": it's most disconcerting. You plainly did not discern my meaning in the above.