Forging a pugio blade

[Crispvs]

Luc,

Thank you very much for that. As you will be aware, catalogues and articles have a tendency to show handles from the front and neglect other veiws. All the examples I had seen myself or had pictures of until you posted these up were open sided, so never having seen an actual example of what Deepeeka had produced it was natural to believe that Deepeeka had created the folded-over ends themselves. As always I am very happy to be proved wrong and at the same time increase my own knowledge.

Therefore and laud point is greatfully awarded to you too.

Crispvs

[Crispvs]

"Is the above grip cover similar to modern brass? Or is that an artifact of the photo?"

I doubt it. In my experience, outer grip plates are always made of iron, either as solid plates or as thin embossed plates over (presumably) shaped inner plates. What you are seeing in the photo is almost certainly the silver inlay with which the grip plate has been decorated.

Crispvs

[L_CORNELIUS_CETHEGUS]

"...outer grip plates are always made of iron, either as solid plates or as thin embossed plates over (presumably) shaped inner plates."

Before this project I looked at these handles and thought the 'thin' outer plate was being shaped directly on the underlying surface. I may have seen some demos using 20-something steel - I'm not sure. From what I could judge in some of the originals though, the plate steel appears (at least in the photos) to be fairly heavy - perhaps 18-16g.

I used 16 gauge steel for the embossed plates which I think would be too sturdy to hammer directly onto the wood/bone. The wood I used was ash which, although being extremely hard/dense, would have surely broken to bits. I basically shaped the wood to nearly the profile I needed, then riveted it in place to the tang. Then I riveted the completed plates to that. Then I clamped the blade in a vice and, using a grinder with an 80 grit sanding disk, brought all the outer edges flush. Then came final finishing with finer sandpaper, a little bit of ash wood filler for any minor gaps, and a coat of tru-oil (which is basically a linseed-based gunstock oil with some additives to help the curing process along).

The plates were one of the hardest parts of this project because hammering out such a multi-faceted pieces creates a LOT of filing work, and the shape has to be just right. I made probably a dozen rounds of importing pictures of the work-in-process and overlaying these onto the originals to see where work was needed. One thing I kick myself for is placing the central dome portion too far forward. The original has it maybe 1/8"-1/4" further to the pommel. Too bad can't put metal back!!

My first attempt was with bone and solid plates but the bone was pretty unforgiving and I started the solid plates from 0.25" (~6mm) - way too heavy. If I was to use those materials on a second try I would need to get a better plane on the tang, plane on the bone plates, and start with steel half that thick... then maybe it would work. :wink:

To give a better idea, here are some photos of the plates by themselves, prior to attaching them to the tang-wood assembly.
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[attachment=0:11uulcgz]<!-- ia0 DSC_0004.JPG<!-- ia0 [/attachment:11uulcgz]

--Kelsey

[jvrjenivs]

Wow, that's really a lovely pugio. You did an enormous good job. Even more as you said it was your first serious blade project. I still don't even think about trying such a project.

[Crispvs]

That grip plate looks very good!

The method of riveting the inner plates to the tang prior to the attachment of the outer plates with further rivets appears to be correct, as many actual examples have been constructed this way.

A possible solution to the problem of hammering onto an underlying surface of wood or bone (for the Romans at least), would be for the grip plates to be shaped on an iron former (it would after all have been done in a workshop which made these parts on a regular basis) and the more fragile inner plates made later and then shaped to fit the already formed outer plates, before being fitted to the tang of the dagger.

Crispvs

[Virilis]

Kelsey, must be the best looking pugio I have seen do far hock: ... Believe me, I have seen a lot, I have even been abroad :wink: !

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Someday I will stop envieing and try my hand at smithing

The biggest thing I've learned about smithing is that it's not anything near as easy as a good smith makes it look. :wink:

(and, of course, red hot metal touching skin will leave a mark that takes a while healing up.) :roll:

Where is the fun if there is no pain? Where is the satisfaction if it is easy? :wink:

[M. Demetrius]

Where is the fun if there is no pain? Where is the satisfaction if it is easy?

If ever I get to that place, I'll let you know! :lol:

[Redguru]

"Is the above grip cover similar to modern brass? Or is that an artifact of the photo?"

I doubt it. In my experience, outer grip plates are always made of iron, either as solid plates or as thin embossed plates over (presumably) shaped inner plates. What you are seeing in the photo is almost certainly the silver inlay with which the grip plate has been decorated.

Crispvs

I suspected so, thanks!

[Peroni]

I doubt it. In my experience, outer grip plates are always made of iron,

Always? Leeuwen pugio? :wink:

[Crispvs]

Yes, even the Leeuven Pugio's grips are iron, although in that particular instance the iron grip plates have a thin copper-alloy coating to enable the handle to match the copper-alloy sheath. This has less many to naturally assume that the grip plates are of brass, which they are not.

Crispvs

[PhilusEstilius]

I think it sounds rather a bold statement to say that all pugio handle plates were made of iron.

[Crispvs]

Maybe so Brian, but until one turns up which is made from anything else I will continue to hold that position.

Crispvs

[PhilusEstilius]

Kelsey.

Where you mention that making the handle plates was difficult I very much understand however for some time now I have made mine by punching them out. what I did when I got hold of two halves of a solid bronze handle I braised a strong T shaped piece to the rear of one.
Then I cut out the handle shape into a 10mm thick piece of brass plate where I just cut a T shaped piece of -6mm or -9mm sheet metal then I hammer out the whole thing in one go then when cleaned up I have these.

http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... /dh114.jpg

As can be seen my handles are of course made of brass and I do at times use a different style of tang, the piece of plywood has a thin piece of wood glued to each side of it afterward which creates a kind of box for the tang.
This way I can put the handles together clean up and complete then fit the blade which is held by the center rivet, there are times however when I use a three rivet fixing with the two rivets at the blade shoulders.

There are also at times when I hammer out handles in silver sheet as here with this repro' of the Velsen dagger

http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... a/vel1.jpg

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Damned! Thats pretty nice work!