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Hippeis, not Hippies
I would endorse what Kineas said...as before ( see post Dec 9 ) please delete long, irrelevant posts....this thread is about the subject of Sparta and it's 'Hippeis', to which the number 300 is incidental....and on an 'ancient forum' discussion of Mediaeval subjects....Catalans and Knights Templar have no place here! :evil: :twisted:
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Sorry Gentlemen and Ladies! I apologize for my off point postings!

Regards,

Ron :oops:
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Ron--I sent you a PM. Don't get discouraged, and thanks for taking the comments in the manner in which they were intended.

Now, back to the Hippeis of Sparta.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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Quote:Ron--I sent you a PM. Don't get discouraged, and thanks for taking the comments in the manner in which they were intended.

Now, back to the Hippeis of Sparta.

Yeh Ron. I kind of find your posts interesting but I get completely lost halfway through ... I know there is a point you are trying to make, but you do go about it in the most longwinded manner sunshine! :wink: :lol:

The numerological aspect of things might be interesting. Start a special (and separate) thread to cover the recurring incidences of 300 in history if you like. I'm sure we'll chip in on that 8) Big Grin .

BTW

I think I can tie Paul B's Hippeis, not Hippies thread up at last. I found some old wargames figures recently which I let my son play with. They were painted when I was a young teenager - so a good long while ago - but I noticed I had painted some of them a few years later. I think I was going through a silly phase (getting into rock 'n' roll and chasing women as you do) as some of the shields had flowers on them, and one of the shields had the following words painted on (quite skillfully I'm proud to admit):

[size=150:2whcgokm]MAKE LOVE - NOT WAR[/size] :lol:
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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Quote:
Quote:.................There was a table that showed almost all of the olympic victors in the last quarter of the 5th c were winners only of chariot racing. Since the winner of chariot races were not even the fellow driving, but the person who bred and trained the horses, this does not speak well for the qualification of a bodyguard! Perhaps someone knows more about the list of victors than was in this one chapter I found.

Since Spartan "Olympic Champions" were distinctly lacking, other than wealthy horse owners......................

I came here with text I prepaired earlier,when I was not home.Because I expected this issue to appear.Since this topic is very rich on text so to say,I will keep this as short as possible,and only on this particular issue.

List of Olympic victors is NOT COMPLETE,NOT EVEN CLOSE..If you see a list of Laconian Olympionikes ( http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JtQs3lLQqb8/S ... s1600-h/EN ???+???'+007.jpg) you will see that 7th century(the best recorded) takes almost half of entire list. And if it’s not argument enough for list and records being uncomplete,let’s take only less than 2 decades in early 5th BC:

-Who won wrestling in 488BC,492BC,500BC,504BC etc etc?
-Who won hoplitodromos in 488BC,492BC,496BC,500BC etc etc?
-Who won pankration 488BC,492BC,496BC, 500BC,504BC, 508BC etc etc?
-Who won diaulos in 492BC,496BC,500BC etc etc?
-Who won discus, or javelin – in any ancient Olympic games,ever ?
etc etc etc

WE DON’T KNOW. We have rougly 1/3 of recorded victors in ancient Olympic games.
Point – we should stop taking the crumbs of historical evidence we have so seriously and literary because in most cases they are just that - crumbs.In any topic…And making conclusions based on crumbs is ridiculous.
And judging by previous, even RECORDED accounts,Spartans could count on Olympic victors enough to safely make “Olympic victors become bodyguards” a rule..but that is for another time.

All best
Aleksandar Nikic

????? ?????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ? ???? .....
..said the 143 kg stone,for a testimony of still unseen feat of strenght.
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I was surprised to see how far back this thread went in terms of its last comment by anybody - but given the topic is once again fresh in the mind (latest Ancient Warfare mag); has anybody anything to add to it?

The author is Scott Rusch who I hope will chip into this thread if he comes on to these boards. BTW - I ordered his book about Spartan Warfare a while back only to receive this response:

Hello,

We regret to inform you that we have been unable to obtain the following item:

Dr Scott M. Rusch "Sparta at War: Strategy, Tactics and Campaigns"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1848325304

Our supplier has informed us that this item is no longer available. This item has now been cancelled from your order #203-8557695-8459565 and we can confirm that you have not been charged for it.

Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience caused.

You may visit the product detail page(s) above to see if these item(s) are available from other sellers.

To view the current status and the costs associated with your order, please visit Your Account (http://www.amazon.co.uk/your-account).

Sincerely,

Customer Service Department
Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk


How can it be no longer available when it has only just been released? :? :| Sad :?: :!:
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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I don't have much faith in the "we don't know who won so it could be Spartans" arguement, but I did notice something a while back that I have been waiting to post. Since Scott's article quoted the passage in Plutarch now is as good a time as any. Plutarch says that "anyone who won a crown as a prize" could stand with the king. Does this open up the category to victors of all of the different regional games, Nemean, etc., in addition to those at Olympia?

If so, then yes there could be a large number of such men. Why exactly I would want a good runner stationed next to my king is of course another question. I'd want all tough, lame men! :-D
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Given the importance of Apollo and Delphi to Lakedaimonian polity, and the established role of the intermediary Pythioi at Sparta; perhaps the Pythian Games would slot into your theory Paul - with the Nemean and Isthmian Games being less significant.
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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