11-20-2009, 06:33 AM
Well said, Mr Bardunias !....thoughts which rely on the evidence such as it is. Much better than the speculation/fantasies about the 'sciritae', based on no evidence at all as far as I am aware! If we stick to what little evidence there is, largely Thucydides, the 'Sciritae' are simply a lochos of allied Hoplites who have the priviledge of holding the left flank of the line and leading the column of march ( the two are synonymous, of course, because a simple 'right turn!' transforms the column, of which the 'Sciritae' are the lead unit, into a line, of which the 'Sciritae' become the left-most unit :wink: ). The corollary of this priveledge is that they work harder, providing sentinels etc....Diodorus' references to 'elite' Sciritae[see ante previous posts] have been shown to be a conflation of Sciritae and Hippeis, probably derived and compressed from Thucydides comments on Mantinea.
Returning to the 'Hippeis', it is, in my view, significant that the Hippeis are NEVER referred to in the sources as a Royal bodyguard, they simply fight, as one might expect 'about the King' or 'near the King' which is where one would expect an elite unit to be. Instead, at the beginning of the Classical era we hear of a different unit of guards, 100 strong - "The prerogatives of the Spartan Kings are these.......On service, the Kings go first and return last; they have a bodyguard of a hundred picked men..." and they evidently exist toward the end of the era as well, for Xenophon refers to Agesilaus' "doryphoroi", lit : 'spearmen', used to refer traditionally to a bodyguard ( Xen. Hell. IV.5.8) . What is more, whenever a Spartan King goes abroad, we never hear of him being accompanied by the Hippeis - Leonidas' 300 are clearly not intended to be 'Hippeis' ( who seem to have been picked from the 'hebontes' - young men under 30), since they are picked from men with sons, and even if one has doubts about this story that Leonidas knew he was going to his doom as part of the subsequent legend, the fact that they were selected/picked tells us they weren't the regular 'Hippeis' - nowhere does Herodotus refer to 'the three hundred' as the 'Hippeis', who he knew of , mentioning Themistocles Honour Guard ( see earlier posts - digression, as unique to Themistocles, since Cimon died before Herodotus wrote, he cannot have received this honour). Later, Agesilaus abroad is accompanied by a staff of thirty Spartiates, and on occasion 'doryphoroi'/Royal Guard - but no 'Hippeis'. They accompany the Spartan Army, not the King, again as you would expect of an elite unit that was NOT a 'Bodyguard'. Thucydides too, like Herodotus and Xenophon, never describes them as a 'Royal Bodyguard', so all our main authorities are in accord.
Thomas Figueira postulated that the three Hippagretae( Xen Constit'n IV.3) who each chose 100 Hippeis ( or more probably the replacements for those graduating as 'good men') each chose for the three Doric Phyles/tribes of Hylleis, Dimnanes and Pamphylioi, and that since the Kings were 'Hylleis', this 100 within the 'Hippeis' provided the King's bodyguard, which seems an attractive idea until we recall that 'Hippeis' and 'Guard' never overlap in our sources, but references ( albeit very few) refer to one or the other ( i.e. no references to "..the Hylleis of the Hippeis.." or "..the Guard from the Hippeis..." )
Because the Hippeis never go abroad with the King, but only form part of the Army, going only where the Army goes and because all our sources treat "Royal Guard' and 'Hippeis' as quite separate entities, I think we may safely say they were NOT a 'Royal Bodyguard'.
P.S. The title of this thread refers to what Google asks you if try to google 'Hippeis'
D lol: :lol:
Returning to the 'Hippeis', it is, in my view, significant that the Hippeis are NEVER referred to in the sources as a Royal bodyguard, they simply fight, as one might expect 'about the King' or 'near the King' which is where one would expect an elite unit to be. Instead, at the beginning of the Classical era we hear of a different unit of guards, 100 strong - "The prerogatives of the Spartan Kings are these.......On service, the Kings go first and return last; they have a bodyguard of a hundred picked men..." and they evidently exist toward the end of the era as well, for Xenophon refers to Agesilaus' "doryphoroi", lit : 'spearmen', used to refer traditionally to a bodyguard ( Xen. Hell. IV.5.8) . What is more, whenever a Spartan King goes abroad, we never hear of him being accompanied by the Hippeis - Leonidas' 300 are clearly not intended to be 'Hippeis' ( who seem to have been picked from the 'hebontes' - young men under 30), since they are picked from men with sons, and even if one has doubts about this story that Leonidas knew he was going to his doom as part of the subsequent legend, the fact that they were selected/picked tells us they weren't the regular 'Hippeis' - nowhere does Herodotus refer to 'the three hundred' as the 'Hippeis', who he knew of , mentioning Themistocles Honour Guard ( see earlier posts - digression, as unique to Themistocles, since Cimon died before Herodotus wrote, he cannot have received this honour). Later, Agesilaus abroad is accompanied by a staff of thirty Spartiates, and on occasion 'doryphoroi'/Royal Guard - but no 'Hippeis'. They accompany the Spartan Army, not the King, again as you would expect of an elite unit that was NOT a 'Bodyguard'. Thucydides too, like Herodotus and Xenophon, never describes them as a 'Royal Bodyguard', so all our main authorities are in accord.
Thomas Figueira postulated that the three Hippagretae( Xen Constit'n IV.3) who each chose 100 Hippeis ( or more probably the replacements for those graduating as 'good men') each chose for the three Doric Phyles/tribes of Hylleis, Dimnanes and Pamphylioi, and that since the Kings were 'Hylleis', this 100 within the 'Hippeis' provided the King's bodyguard, which seems an attractive idea until we recall that 'Hippeis' and 'Guard' never overlap in our sources, but references ( albeit very few) refer to one or the other ( i.e. no references to "..the Hylleis of the Hippeis.." or "..the Guard from the Hippeis..." )
Because the Hippeis never go abroad with the King, but only form part of the Army, going only where the Army goes and because all our sources treat "Royal Guard' and 'Hippeis' as quite separate entities, I think we may safely say they were NOT a 'Royal Bodyguard'.
P.S. The title of this thread refers to what Google asks you if try to google 'Hippeis'
D lol: :lol:
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
