terrible punishment questions.. (post any questions here)

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

OK i know it might bve viewed as a sick subject for research, but still...........

Herodotus writes that Xerxes got infatuated with the daughter of his brother. Xerxes started an affair but his wife got jealous so she called the wife of Xerxes' brother to the palace and had her breasts cut off, her lips and nose, and her tongue ripped out...

After this punishment, she was sent back to her husband....

Now i am wondering... if you cut a woman's breasts off wouldnt she bleed to death?
(apart from the obvious other wounds she suffered)

Were the wounds cauterized afterward and then did they send her home ?

so.. what did they cut off... only the nipples? half the breasts?

I wonder.........

If you have an idea about this punishment, write it down, and if you yourself have a question on terrible ancient punishments and how they were executed,

do ask and discuss !!

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

if you cut a woman's breasts off wouldnt she bleed to death?

Probably; it is, at least, what happened to Saint Agatha.

The mutilation of lips, nose, and tongue was sort of common in ancient Persia, but only for people who had committed high treason. Herodotus' story does not fit into this category. I suspect it is not true.

[M. Demetrius]

I suspect it is not true.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's in fairly bad taste, and I suspect the topic won't lead anywhere worthwhile, but maybe that's just me.

[A_Volpe]

breasts are too nice to warrant such horrific behavior and severing...

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

It is about the dreadfulness of ancient punishments and how exactly they were executed.
It was a big part of ancient civilisation, which makes it a valid theme.

When reading the classic authors, one seems to get an eery feeling they do not care one bit about murdering, executing or even maiming other human beings. Just like in the middle ages.

These days man is supposed to be "civilised" however we develop clusterbombs, butterfly and candy mines, people use waterboarding, electroshocks et cetera...

This is just an investigation into forms and ways of punishment in the classical world, and has NOTHING to do with bad taste or anything sensational, that is your personal opinion and you are entitled to have it and by no means do you have to agree with the topic.

If you are not interested in, or disgusted by the topic, simply dont read, and dont post.

I was also reading up about the "throwing to the lions" punishment and read a passage somewhere that the handlers often needed to push the lions towards the prisoner because they were not hungry, and also that prisoners were covered in animal meat and blood to make them at least of some interest to the lions...

any ideas on that one?

Also, where Crucifixion is mentioned often as a typical Roman punishment, you read in Herodotus that the practice was widespread, even amongst the Greeks. so, where did it originate from exactly?

M.VIB.M.

[Epictetus]

When reading the classic authors, one seems to get an eery feeling they do not care one bit about murdering, executing or even maiming other human beings.

History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind.

Edward Gibbon

I think that the reason these things were written down was because they were (relatively) unusual. I suppose it makes "better reading" then and now. If one looks around he can find examples that suggest these horrors were outside of the experience of normal people. For instance, Lucian describes an elderly sea captain who was presumably well-travelled. He was asked by some scoundrals to throw his passenger (Lucian, incidently) overboard. The sea captain was mortified because he had never came across anything so awful in his long life and refused to do it.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

breasts are too nice to warrant such horrific behavior and severing...

Very true, but woman can be cruel......

[M. Demetrius]

If you are not interested in, or disgusted by the topic, simply dont read, and dont post.

Thanks for the unsolicited advice, but as a moderator, I'm not allowed to simply ignore things that are near the edge of propriety. It is required of us as mods to read many things that are not included in our personal interests, and to try within our framework not to allow threads to run too far over the edge of our preset lines.

It may not prove profitable to question too harshly the rules that we have to work with here, or to disregard the cautions that may be sent your way. This is not a forum that accepts threads concerning some of the things that might have been considered "normal" to the Ancients.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Of course i understand what you mean, however i would say, lets first see where this thread leads us or what it developes into, deleting it or locking it can always be done.

It is a study subject, and to be honest, what you write:

It may not prove profitable to question too harshly the rules that we have to work with here, or to disregard the cautions that may be sent your way. This is not a forum that accepts threads concerning some of the things that might have been considered "normal" to the Ancients.

to me comes across not as a well meant and kindly put advice but rather as a hidden threat I am sorry to say, no offense.

I do not question the forum rules at all, nor have i seen any caution coming my way for starting this thread.

Threads about things which might have been considered "normal" to the ancients are as legitimate as any question on crucifixion in the regular archaeology section, or on several other subjects which threads have been started on.

It is of course the perogative and task of the moderators to decide which thread they deem "proper" or p.c. and which threads are not.

Once more, this thread is not meant as a sensation thread, but as a discussion on punishments and the views on punishments in the ancient world.

Because it is of course a sensitive subject, i have put it in the Off Topic section.

M.VIB.M.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

When reading the classic authors, one seems to get an eery feeling they do not care one bit about murdering, executing or even maiming other human beings.

History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind.

Edward Gibbon

I think that the reason these things were written down was because they were (relatively) unusual. I suppose it makes "better reading" then and now. If one looks around he can find examples that suggest these horrors were outside of the experience of normal people. For instance, Lucian describes an elderly sea captain who was presumably well-travelled. He was asked by some scoundrals to throw his passenger (Lucian, incidently) overboard. The sea captain was mortified because he had never came across anything so awful in his long life and refused to do it.

I think anyone looking back from the future and reading modern day news reports would find our present society to be full of abominations....
let's not paint our present era with too rosy a tint!

[M. Demetrius]

to me comes across not as a well meant and kindly put advice but rather as a hidden threat I am sorry to say, no offense.

You misunderstand. It's not intended to be a threat. More like a warning.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Okay Demetrius, thanx!!

M,VIB.M.

[hoplite14gr]

Things sometime are terribly simple or terribly complicated at the same time.

Some neolithic group whose shaman forbade spilling blood created the strangulation penalty which evolved into hanging.

Some other group with a similarly minded shaman decide to expose the "guilty one" to the animals or the elements of nature.
This evolved into tying him to a tree or a rock (This is the Greek "apotympanismos" sometimes mistakenly translated as crusifixion)
The evolution of making the "punishment-pole" into a form of religious symbol (cross predates Christianity) seems it was known to Egyptians and people of the middle and near East. Yet no one knows who was the first sadist who thought that except bonds, nails were s "fun idea".

Yet some tyrrant Phalaris is supposed to roast people inside a metal oven in the shape of a bull.

Greeks though bilived that civilized people should execute "humainly", hence the hemlock (the famous Sokrates story).

Yet some where in the steppes someone invented the impalement on a stick and none knows where the boiling people alive originated.

But today we are civilized we advanced from cluster bombs into "fuel-air" bombs (Nice one burns oxygen and suffocates everthing (even in bunkers!) and it is not considered a chemical weapon!!!!).

Question: Use of HEAT rounds counts as punishment or a combat act? (What about punishing the invader?)

Kind regards

[Matt Lukes]

And who knows if these descriptions are real- the French and English accused the Germans of cutting off the breasts of nuns during the First World War as propaganda- perhaps it's reasonable to see these ancient 'accounts' as that as well? Goodness knows propaganda is still alive and well today and surely has existed as long as there has been language LOL

[Caius Fabius]

But today we are civilized we advanced from cluster bombs into "fuel-air" bombs (Nice one burns oxygen and suffocates everthing (even in bunkers!) and it is not considered a chemical weapon!!!!).

Question: Use of HEAT rounds counts as punishment or a combat act? (What about punishing the invader?)

Kind regards

HEAT Rounds are High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) and creat a jet of super hot plasma to cut through the metal or other armor of a hard target. You don't want to waste those rounds against an individual, in most cases. Although they do work fine against unarmored targets in a pinch. :twisted: